Welcome to A Breath of Fresh Air with Sandy Kaye. Hello, thanks for your company today. Always great to have your ears.
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Now, you probably haven’t heard much about my guest today, and I have to admit I hadn’t either. But I’m sure after listening, you won’t forget him. Check this out.
Sharks never stop swimming. Riders need a beginning. Cheaters never stop winning.
That’s the way of the world. Losers need a do-over. When they’re living in poverty.
They want it over and over. That’s the way of the world. Troubled of my past.
Put it away in a drawer. Got my back up against the wall and crawled. In music circles, New York born Richard Gerstein is better known as Richard T. Bear, and he’s recognized for being a fixture on the New York session scene, as well as for his work as a solo artist.
His first album in 1979 spawned the disco rock hit Sunshine Hotel, which climbed the charts everywhere. Richard has made his mark both as a solo performer and collaborator with many artists, including Crosby, Stills and Nash, the Blues Brothers, Robbie Krieger of The Doors, Edgar Winter, Cher and Gene Simmons and Peter Criss of Kiss. And now, after a 25-year long hiatus, Richard’s back with a sensational new album called The Way of the World.
Hey! I call you Richard? You can call me Richard, you can call me T. Bear, whatever you like. I just don’t call you late for dinner, right? What grabbed me first about your bio is the fact that you were born Richard Gerstein in New York City. So you were a good Jewish boy.
You were then raised in the Caribbean. How did that happen? Well, my family, my parents were in the garment business. So I was born in New York City, raised in the Caribbean because they had their factories all over the Caribbean.
As a kid, that’s where I grew up. What was that like for you? Oh, it was marvelous. You know, when you’re a kid, your eyes are wide open and to experience different cultures and different things that you never get to experience.
It was beautiful. I got to hear, you know, bands from Cuba and bands from Puerto Rico and musicians, you know, all over the place. And I loved it.
You know, and I started playing percussion as a kid. And then my parents got a piano and I tried to play piano like a percussion instrument. And that’s one of the things I do well.
I play keyboards well, but I can also play it almost like a percussion instrument. Right. So you were first inspired by all the sights and sounds you heard around you there.
Absolutely. I mean, I heard bands from Cuba, Los Chevaliers de España and all that stuff prior to the lockdown of Cuba by Castro. I have a song on the new album, The Way of the World.
It’s called Dinner for One. And that’s a homage to the Buena Vista Social Club. My eyes could read your gaze.
I’ve been cooking my bagel slowly to form ideas I could convey. Outside the neon flames from exhaustion, screaming promises of what’s inside. But no one’s watching.
Still, I cook this dinner for one. I moved back to the city because they had to run a business and that was headquartered in the States. So tell us what young Richard Gerstein did then in New York City as a teenager, having been infused with all of these sounds from the Caribbean.
Young Richard Gerstein got a job at Manny’s Music Store. It was the music store in New York City where all the bands went through and all the roadies went through and all the producers. I remember as a kid getting my keyboard there.
The owner of the store and his brother really liked me. So when I asked for a job, they gave me one. When I worked at Manny’s, bands would come through and they would give us passes to get into the Fillmore East or Madison Square Garden, the Felt Forum, the Palladium, whatever, wherever they were playing.
And I remember going to the Fillmore East and loving that venue because I got to see all the bands that I listened to on FM. I went down there one day and I had a pass and I sat down and I went down there because there was this band called Iron Butterfly that were headlining there and they had this song called En Agada De Vida, which was an organ song, you know, and it was they had about an eight-minute organ solo. So I wanted to see this guy play this solo because I was a keyboard player.
I’m sitting down there, the emcee comes out and goes, ladies and gentlemen, we have an opening act tonight that wasn’t on the bill, but it’s their second show in the United States. Would you please welcome from England, Led Zeppelin. So Zeppelin opened for the Iron Butterfly and they tore the place down.
It was the best rock and roll show and set I’ve seen to this day. And then I went down, I got a backstage pass. It was my first backstage pass and these guys came in and they saw me kind of showing somebody a Wurlitzer or something and they said, hey kids, you played pretty good.
You should come down and we’re going to have a big jam down at the Fillmore East tonight. And I went down and I stood on the side. I’ve never been on backstage and I stood on the side, you know, the jam was The Grateful Dead, Traffic and Hot Tuna.
And I’m standing there at the side of the stage. One of the roadies went out to give something to Jerry Garcia and he pointed at me and Garcia looked at me and gave me the come on out sign and I sat down at the Wurlitzer and I played at the Fillmore East with the Dead. I thought from that minute on, the thought in my head was I want to do this the rest of my life.
The Grateful Dead? Are you kidding me? So you were pretty set on what you wanted to do from a very early age. Absolutely. That’s actually where I got discovered.
And I got discovered by a guy called Richie Havens and Richie came up to me and said, I’m making a record. It’s called Mixed Bag 2. He had just had a huge hit with Mixed Bag 1. He’d played Woodstock. He’d opened Woodstock, you know, and he was really well loved.
And he was a beautiful, kind, gentle soul. He looked like the Black Moses. You know, he had these long robes and beads and a staff and he was just the most beautiful, wondrous kind of hat, you know.
And he said, I’m making a record and I’d you to play on it. I love the way you play. And I said, really? And he said, yeah.
I gave him my name and he said, all right, come to this address. And I get up there and I go in the studio. And I got to tell you, Sandy, the best session players in the entire world were in that studio that night.
And I walk in and I’m like the only vanilla fella, you know, there. And everybody says, this is Richard Gerstein. I’m feeling really apprehensive and nervous.
And Al came over and kind of calmed me down. And I played on a bunch of tracks on that record and that kind of launched me. Ooh, child, things are gonna get easier.
Ooh, things will be brighter. Ooh, things will be easier. Ooh, things will be brighter.
You were discovered because Ritchie Havens recognised something in your playing that he really liked. What is that? I actually played differently than most other guys played at the time. I had this percussive Caribbean world music vibe mashed together with soul music, rock and roll and maybe New Orleans, Creole.
So the guys that I listened to that I really followed were a British keyboard player called Nicky Hopkins, Leon Russell, and then another guy called Dr. John McRabbinack. I liked the style of Leon a lot. And Nicky Hopkins played on all the British rock and roll records.
So I put it together and sprinkled Gerstein in it. And then all of a sudden, I’m getting all these sessions to play on. People are noticing me with this band that I put together, and I get offered a record.
I got discovered by Ritchie Havens. I got discovered kind of by Frank Sinatra and his crew. I got discovered by the Kiss guys.
The management team and the producer of Kiss saw me playing and walked by me. And as he walked by, he kind of bleared at me and made a face. And I’m playing.
It’s like, who is this guy? What is this creature? And then he came over later on and says, all right, there’s two things that are going to happen right now. So what’s that? He says, I want to get you high and I’m going to have you play with one of our bands. And I said, OK.
Then he got me to play with Toby Boat, My Angel Baby, which was number one. He had me play with Gene Simmons and Peter Criss and then Ghostright with Kiss. That kind of pretty much launched me.
I went to England with Gene Simmons and wound up playing on his album and then him introducing me to Cher. And she said, well, I’m putting a band together and I want you to be part of this and I want you to write me songs. And I was like, really? You know, really? And I was amazed that she would want somebody who’s doing so much rock and roll.
But there I was. The only thing that’s bad about when you get tapped on your shoulder to do a lot of stuff is that a lot of things happen at the same time. You can’t do things.
You got to pick and choose. I remember Cher saying to me, I want you to come out to L.A. and she put me up in L.A. And I worked with her on her album and you meet so many people along the way. Take me home, take me home.
Oh, can’t you see I want you to be here? Take me home, take me home. Oh, baby, let’s get out of here. I’d follow you anywhere.
You’re a place of mine. I’d follow you anywhere. You’re a place of mine.
And meet people Richard certainly did. He’d already spent time early on as Carly Simon’s road manager. He’d opened shows for Jeff Beck and Ritchie Havens and guested on some of Pat Benatar’s early demos.
This is a Breath of Fresh Air with Sandy Kaye. It’s a beautiful day. Richard T. Bear was in hot demand.
He appeared on numerous recordings by artists like Crosby, Stills & Nash, the Blues Brothers soundtrack, Ritchie Havens, KISS members Gene Simmons and Peter Criss’ solo ventures, as well as projects by former Rascals members Gene Cornish and Dean Odinelli. And one thing just kept leading to another. I remember meeting in a bar.
The coat check girl was fascinating to me. I really liked her. She was this kind of overweight, kind of mouthy, kind of hair done in really strange colours.
And I said, who is that? When I was playing there. Oh, that’s Allie. I said, well, what does she do? Oh, she’s a songwriter.
So I got together with her and I started writing some songs. And it turns out her name was Allie Willis. She wrote the music to Color Purple.
She wrote the entire Boogie Wonderland album for Earth, Wind & Fire. She wrote maybe 70 chart top 40 records in three years. And she’s in the Singer Hall of Fame.
She was from Detroit. And she and I wrote a couple of songs for Cher together. One song that I can recall that got on the record, Young and Pretty.
From the suburbs of another city They say you can make it if you’re young and you’re pretty Dreams misbegotten, ain’t it a pity But they say you can make it if you’re young and you’re pretty So I sit inside my desperate room Waiting for a man to play And I wonder what is left to lose With anyone, anyway And then I wrote a song that Sean Delaney said to Cher, this is the song for you. He was brilliant in that way. He said, listen to Richard’s song, Pain in My Heart.
And she listened to it and she says, oh, that’s for me. And she said, I’d like to do that. I just want to change the name from Pain in My Heart to Love and Pain.
I said, go right ahead. And to this day, she says it’s her, and critics say it’s her best ballad she’s ever sung. She did it on her TV show.
She did it on her music videos. She did it on tour. Great song.
And it was on my first album. And I got signed by RCA. And that’s when I lost Gerstein.
Gerstein was no more from that moment on. They told you to dump it, or it was your decision? They said, Jews don’t sell in the South. If you want to sign this contract, change your name.
So I had a big bear coat, kind of wooly coat. And they said, you look like a bear. Let’s call you Bear, Richard the Bear.
And I said, OK, let’s do it, Richard T. Bear. I see the clouds. I feel the rain.
All comes down to you again. I take the ashes. The memory stays the same.
It all comes down to love and pain. Head for the coast. Try to make the most of this misery.
Because there’s a pain in my heart. And it’s tearing me apart. Well, I guess that’s just the way the story goes.
There’s a hunger in my veins. And it’s driving me insane. I guess it all comes down to you again.
And you’ve been T. Bear ever since? I’ve been T. Bear ever since, yeah. So you were certainly on your way. That first album featured a number of notable contributors, didn’t it? I mean, how did all of those names get on there? You know, it was great people.
You know, it was this New York City session player mafia that I belonged to. I was playing with, you know, one thing leads to another. I was playing with the ex-Young Rascal guys, Dino Dinelli, who I consider to be the best rock and roll drummer I ever heard, period, to this day.
And Gene Cornish. And I was doing a record with them at Electric Ladyland. And in the next studio over, you know, Hendrix was in there.
And that was his studio. And then there was this organ player that came in from Wichita, Kansas, called Mike Finnegan. And I went, wow, that guy’s cool.
And so he and I started hanging out. And he got me interested in the blues. He was the best white blues singer I ever heard.
And he played Hammond like no one else. I learned from a lot of these cats. And, you know, one thing led to another.
And here I am playing with this one and that one. And it’s just this domino effect. So from that album, Red Hot and Blue, the single off it was a disco hit called Sunshine Hotel.
You were playing disco? What the hell? I wasn’t playing disco. I played rock and roll with a large helping of soul and R&B. So there was this song called Sunshine Hotel.
I took my baby to the sunshine. And there was a place on the Bowery called the Sunshine Hotel. It was this real dive hotel.
I took my baby to the Sunshine Hotel. She said she’d do me and she’d done me well. Walk on in, you’re going to need to ring the bell when you’re living at the Sunshine Hotel.
Cut that thing, and it was a smoking hot R&B rock and roll record. Smoking hot. Unfortunately, I was assigned to the worst label in the history of labels at the time.
They didn’t know what to do with me. They didn’t know what to do with that. But disco was happening.
So what they did was they went and had somebody remix it into this 12-inch maxi single. And they started putting it out in discos. Put it Studio 54.
Studio 54 started playing the shit out of that record. And then when Studio 54 played it, all the rest of the discos played it. And then when all the rest of the discos played it, and they looked at the charts, they went, oh my god, it’s a dance record.
Then it went to number four in the world. It was on fire. All of a sudden, I get offers from Europe, come over and be on this TV show, be on that big show and this show.
And I toured, as a promo thing, all of Europe with that record. And then I got invited to come over and play with my band. You must have been pinching yourself along the way, were you? Well, I was pinching myself when we got offered to be headliners over in Europe because I was the opening act.
You know, when my record came out, I got signed by RCA, and they went, okay, here’s how we’re going to break you. You’re going to go and play all the big halls and all the stadiums and all the huge venues as the opening act for these headliners. People are going to discover who you are.
So I was the perennial opening act for like two years. I would open for the Doobie Brothers. I would open for J. Giles.
I would open for The Outlaws. I would open for Johnny Winter. On and on and on and on and on and on.
It wasn’t fun. It was really hard work because nobody came there to hear you. When you’re the opening act and you’re opening for J. Giles, for example, and they’re the big band, the people paid to see J. Giles.
They didn’t pay to see Richard T. Baer. In fact, I was in Cobo Hall, Detroit, playing there two nights with J. Giles, and I walk out to the keyboard. The band sets up.
Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome RCA recording artist Richard T. Baer. And before I could say good evening, I got hit in the face with a tennis ball. And that’s the kind of welcome you got most of the place that you went.
Does she walk, does she talk, does she come complete? My home, home angel is pulling from my seat. She was pure like snowflakes, no one could ever. My angel couldn’t go by.
I’m looking through a girl on the pages in between. My soul, my angel, angel is a sample. My love runs cold.
I did it. I paid my dues. And then all of a sudden, I’m off in Europe, and I’m a headliner.
It was around that time that you became friendly with Stephen Stills? Yeah. Stephen asked me to join his band, and I said sure, because I loved Manassas, and it was after Manassas. And then I started living at Stephen Stills’ house, and Stephen and I became really good friends, and we wrote lots of great songs together.
And I helped him on a song with – he brought me into the Crosby, Stills and Nash camp, and he had me help him with a song called Southern Cross, which was a huge hit for them. Got out of town on a boat on a southern island. Sailing the reach before a following sea.
She was making for the trades on the outside. And off the wind on this heavy lather, my case says, You’ve got 80 feet of a water line, nicely made your way. In a noisy bar in Avalon, I tried to call you.
But on the midnight watch, I realized why twice you ran away. Think about how many times I have fallen. Spirits are using me.
Thought your voice is calling. What never brought you and me cannot be forgotten. I have been around the world, Looking for the call I know.
Who knows love can end up. I had a really good time living with Stephen. I’ll tell you a funny story.
You know, I took a hiatus for 20, 25 years. Then when I came back, I made this record called Fresh Bear Tracks. There’s a song on it called Give It Up, and it’s Stephen Stills and I wrote that back in those days.
And I forgot about that song, and I was going through my warehouse where I have a lot of keyboards and things, and I found this box, and I opened it up, and there’s all these tapes from the Crosby, Stills, and Nash sessions. And they’re all great. I mean, these are rough mixes and things that didn’t get put on the record.
And I see this one, and it says, Give It Up, Stills, Bear. I didn’t even have a cassette player. I went out and bought one, put it in, and I’m like, This is a great song.
This is cool. So I cut it on that album and went to number one in the Netherlands on a Hit 100 during COVID. Stephen Stills played on it and trade slicks with Walter Trout.
Walter’s on it. Stephen and I, to this day, are really tight. When you wake up and call out for someone Feeling stranded in the middle of the night Who is there for the light? Do you remember who brought you home? Did they leave every time you let me think Just give it up T-Bear, you talk about having had an extended hiatus.
I know that in 1983, you gained your sobriety. What happened that you decided to opt out? I opted out in 1983. And I hopped out because I was about to die.
There’s no question. I was living in Laurel Canyon. I was living in Wonderland.
And it was crazy in those days. I had a vision of me dying. Honest to God, and I hope this helps somebody.
I called my mama. She flew out to L.A. and she put me in a hospital. Five weeks later, I came out of that hospital and I took it really seriously.
And I embraced the people that had gone before me and that would help me. We had musicians’ picnics every summer where all the bands would come that were sober and clean. And there were some great ones.
And there’d be anywhere from 800 to 5,000 people would show up and we’d raise money and put musicians in a detox and rehab. And I was on the board of directors for that for a long time. So I feel really great that I was able to, A, stay sober and clean, B, give back to my tribe what I was freely given, I gave back.
There are places I’ll remember Faces I’ll forget Times that I will treasure Times I will regret Hearts that keep on beating Hearts that remain still There’s men that keep on fighting And ones that never will And the daylight never comes Because the night, it will not end The moon that sails across the sky To an old familiar friend And though the sails are full of gold She beckons you to start But the coldest winter I ever spent Was the summer in her heart And she flies so high She’s hard, hard to hold And she flies so high She’s hard, hard to hold So T-Bear was back, clean and sober, but didn’t make any more music for the next 25 years. Hang in to find out why.
This is a Breath of Fresh Air with Sandy Kaye. It’s a beautiful day. So what you’ve discovered along that path was the fact that you can make great music and be clean and sober at the same time.
Absolutely. You know, this is an irony kind of thing. I met a woman while I was living in Europe because that’s where I had a foothold and then I got an offer to come to the States and do a demo with a guy called Greg Kinn, Our Loves in Jeopardy.
He had a big hit. Where were you when I needed you? Oh, it’s gonna start. I came to L.A. and saw Stephen and all those guys and I met a girl at the Viper Room, which was called The Central at the time.
And it was a night, it was Monday night, it was Chucky Weiss and the Goddamn Liars. It was a sober and clean L.A. band where everybody was kind of in a 12-step program. And Chucky Weiss is famous for Ricky Lee Jones’ Chucky’s in Love.
She wrote the song about him. I don’t believe what you say to me This is something I’ve got to see Is he here? I look in the pool hall Is he here? I look in the drug stall Is he here? No, he don’t come here no more I see a girl standing at the doorway and she was really cute. I walked up to the guy next to her and I said, who is that? He says, I’m not telling you because I’ve got eyes on that.
And she was standing there with a cup of coffee, right? And I thought she was part of the program, the clean and sober tribe. It turns out she had it full of whiskey and coffee. And I had four years clean at that time.
But we got along together. I met her. I wrote her a note, handed it to her.
And later on, we got married and had three kids. And she said to me, she says, you know, you’re not going to like this, but it’s time for you to quit the music business because you have to raise kids now. And I’m pregnant with our first and you got to go get a day job.
So I went out and got a day job. And for the next 20 some odd years, I sold light bulbs every day. And I sometimes went door to door selling light bulbs.
And that’s the way I lived in California. And when I got to the end of my rope in that situation with her, I got divorced and went to a place where someone asked me to speak about how sobriety works and how you can stay, you know, being a musician. She had only musicians appear at this event.
Just was every week. And I met her. I liked her a lot.
There was some kind of spark there and got divorced and two years later married her. And her name is Nina. And into the marriage about the second year of our marriage, she said, it’s time for you to put a band together.
I know who you are. I have all these records up here that you played on. You know, you need to be doing that.
I love that you have a day job. You’re the only musician I know with a day job. But that being said, you need to have a night job and a night job is going to be a musician again.
And by the way, my ex was a guitar player in your band like 25 years ago. So it’s a small world. And she nagged me and nagged me.
She was going back to college in her 50s as an adult and she was sitting at her desk and there was a piano on the other side of the desk. Go over there. She said, come over, play some music for me while I’m doing my homework.
And she says, now write a song. So I started writing a song and she went, oh, that’s a really good musical hook. Keep that.
Oh, I really like that. She said, now it’s time you make a record. And I happened to by coincidence put my name out there that I was going to do sessions again.
Got called to do a session at Robbie Krieger’s studio, Horse Latitudes, Robbie Krieger being the guitar player from The Doors. Don’t you love her badly? Don’t you need her badly? Don’t you love her ways? Tell me what you say. Don’t you love her badly? Want to meet her daddy? Don’t you love her face? Don’t you love her as she’s walking out the door? Like she did one thousand times before.
Don’t you love her ways? Tell me what you say. Don’t you love her as she’s walking out the door? I was in doing a session that day and he came through the studio, it’s his private studio, and he saw me and he went, T-Bear, what you doing here? And I said, everything gonna be alright, man. I’ll be playing now.
And he said, well, that’s great. Why don’t you come in here and record? And I said, because I don’t have deep pockets. I got three kids I’m trying to put through school and I don’t have a record deal anymore.
He said, well, you know what? You come in here when the studio’s not being used and if you pay the engineer, I’ll give you the studio and make your record. So, Robbie Krieger got me the studio. I cut 23 tracks, 21 originals, and towards the end of the record when it was getting ready to be mixed, we got some horrifying news.
Nina was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and was dead within a year. So, before she died, she wrote me out a note and it said, live your best life, finish your record, never cancel another gig, go out on tour and fall in love again. So, that record was a direct result of Nina and her last song on it is Nina’s song and that was the first song I wrote when she said, write your songs again.
And the promises we’d make From a thousand miles away I know your voice and what you’d say Don’t ever leave me lonely You’re my one and only I love you through the end of days Somebody from a record company walked in and said, I want you to come to my house because I want to sign you as an artist and I want to talk about what I want to do for you. I told him about Nina, I told him about what happened. He said, I want to sign you and he signed me.
And then the record company said, we want you to do another record and that’s when The Way of the World came out and that was The Way of the World during COVID. So, T-Bear was back you stopped selling light globes, you showed that you were an incredibly dutiful Jewish husband who always listened to their wife twice over. Twice, yeah.
And you were back doing the thing that you love, making music. Here’s the way I write now. Lyrics first, short stories put to music.
You know, when I wrote The Way of the World, I was thinking to myself, because I was really into Bob Dylan that week, and I thought to myself what would Bob write right about now? And those are the lyrics that I came up with for The Way of the World. Which is your favorite track on there? You know, last week it was something different, but this week it’s Dinner for One. Last week it was the bonus track, Red Harvest, with Paul Rodgers singing a duet with me.
Taking a trip, but not a vacation Traveling west, without invitation Go by bus, train or a car, some walk to survive No matter how far Gone too far Border’s a shelter, a place of salvation, a friend to anyone To save their nation, it’s their nation Leave their husbands, brothers and sons Who now have to learn to fight with a gun Red Harvest, the world is plunged into darkness In the Red Red Harvest this year A Change Would Do Me Good went to number one again in the Netherlands. Walter was number one and I was number four. And then Walter would look at me while we were on tour and he goes, I’m still number one.
I said, but I’m climbing, I’m climbing, Wally. And then he was down to number three and I was number one. And I said, you’re number three.
I’m number one, Wally. Every day, it’s the same old, same old putting one in front of the other. Same old food the same old drive.
I need more to feel alive Lounging in the park five days a week. Roads are more confined and the groove’s better. Change would do me good Stop knocking on wood.
Change would do me fine I’m heading on down the line Keeping up last night in the microwave Doing the laundry, cleaning up, like I said Same old food, the same old drive. I need more to feel alive Change would do me good Stop knocking on wood Change would do me fine I’m heading on down the line I had a therapist somewhere in Florida. Because Walter covered one of my songs on this album.
It’s on his Broken album. It’s called Breathe She contacts me, gives my number, and she says, you know, I’m a therapist and I’m playing that song for people that are going through rough times I said, this is what you need to put on. And I said, well why is that? She goes, because it’s not therapy, it’s Barathy.
Barathy. So you’ve done everything that Nina told you to do. Yes.
Have you fallen in love again? Have you managed to do that last one? You know what? I’m seeing somebody. Lovely. Well, I wish you much continued success.
You’ve got a big heart there. It’s so lovely that you have me on your show and you’re so easy to talk to. And I gotta thank you because your questions are really well thought out.
When you’re wondering who to call When that time starts to fall As the sky turns to rust And it’s love me or bust So choose your seat with the clearest view And make a choice as the last call chimes You found a place to land So I guess you’ll do just fine Just breathe Just breathe The sky’s the area for clues And all the news it fits we print Whether it’s red, hot, blue or lime I guess I’m just marking time I left my crystal ball at home Wishing it would turn to stone It’s never front page news When there’s holes in your shoes Midnight it’s another day Just like that I drift away With nothing up your sleeve All that’s left to do is breathe Thank you so much for sharing your stories and your time with us. People may not have known your name before but I have to tell you from here on in they certainly will. Cause it’s a beautiful day You’ve been listening to A Breath of Fresh Air with Sandy Kaye Beautiful day It’s a beautiful day