Hello, a very big welcome to you today. I hope you’re feeling great and really ready to settle into another interesting musical story. Today, we’re featuring the band Foreigner, who in case you missed it, have just been inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Founding member and keyboard player Al Greenwood is about to unravel the band’s journey and take us through the inevitable highs and lows that the guys faced before, during and after fame and fortune found them. But just before we go there, a reminder to you to email me if there’s someone you’d like to hear interviewed. As long as they made music in the 60s, 70s or 80s, I promise I’ll try and get them onto the show for you.
Just contact me through the website of breathoffreshair.com.au. Now back to Al Greenwood, who says the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction is way overdue. You know, we’ve waited quite a long time for this. But to finally receive that recognition from the hall, along with all the legends that are in the hall already, I mean, it’s extremely humbling.
It’s like a lifetime achievement award. I mean, it’s all the bulk of the work that you did and the recognition that you get from it. You finally recognized as being worthy.
You also have to recognize the class that we’re coming in with. They’re legendary as well. I mean, Cher, Dave Matthews Band, Ozzy Osbourne, Peter Frampton, Kool and the Gang, Mary J. Blige.
That’s unbelievable to me to be a part of. The stars are out and shining, but all I really want to know, oh won’t you show me the way. Oh won’t you show me the way.
Let’s wind it back now to your early days and tell us how you got to the place you’re in now. You grew up in New York City and I know that you were really surrounded by music. Tell us a little bit about what it was like.
Well, I was very fortunate because my family, just about everyone played an instrument. There was always music playing. My grandfather played the piano.
My uncle had a band which he sang in. He played saxophone and piano and my mother played the accordion. My sister played the piano and she was taking lessons.
So I wanted to do that as well. That’s fascinating to me. So I started at an early age doing that and when I was 13, I got into my first band.
But playing piano, I couldn’t get anybody to bring a piano to these functions. So basically what I did was I took up the guitar instead, learned it myself and played at a few of these church socials and things like that to get enough money for me to get a small little portable organ to play keyboards in the band. And that’s how I got started.
So keyboards was always your first love? Oh yeah, yeah. It was just a part of me. I couldn’t really get away from it.
It was always in the house. So they weren’t surprised when you told them that you were going to become a professional musician? They sort of liked it when I was starting out because I was in small bands and playing in clubs and stuff like that. But as it got to be more of something that I wanted to pursue, they were a bit concerned because it’s not exactly something you can depend on or count on.
Actually, the band that I was in during high school had broken up. At that point, I was going into college. So I took two majors.
I took computer science and music. I always had something to fall back on. And after I graduated college, I would be a computer programmer during the day and then I would go into New York City at night and do sessions in different recording studios.
And then little by little, the music took more and more of my time and I quit my job. And that’s the way I became. So when music won out for you, what happened then? Well, I started getting into bands professionally.
The first band that I was in was some ex-members of a British progressive rock group called Flash. We were just about to get signed and the singer said, I’m going to pursue solo. That actually wasn’t the first time that it happened to you, was it? No, no, it wasn’t.
Disappointments definitely come with a part of being in a band. But right after that, I put my own band together and I started writing songs for that. And in early 1976, I get a phone call from Mick Jones.
And I didn’t know who Mick Jones was, but he said, you know, I was in Spooky Tooth and I was in the Leslie West Band. And he started naming all these other things that he was doing. But he was putting together a new project and he wanted to know if I would be interested in doing it.
So I said, well, I’ve got my own band right now. But I thought about it and I said, you know, I think he’s probably in a much better position than I am to go forward. So I said, sure, let’s get together.
His manager had an office on Broadway in Manhattan. And in the middle of his office was a storage area. So we moved aside all the file cabinets and we set up our instruments.
And there were two other members at the time, which didn’t end up being in the band. So we had, you know, four pieces and we played. We actually just jammed.
So we did blues jams. We played Johnny B. Goode. You name the song, we played.
This went on for a while. And after about two weeks, I said, gee, I don’t know if this is for me. I think I may go back to the band that I had.
I thought we would have songs. I thought he would have given us songs to do rather than just improvising and things like that. So, I mean, it was fun to do.
I like to jam, but it was like I thought there would be something more that we would be doing. So I go in the next day and I’m about to tell Nick that I was going to leave. And Nick says, I’ve got this song.
And he starts to play. Feels like the first time on guitar. And right then I knew there’s something special here.
So I stayed. And that was the very beginning of what was to be formed. Did he suggest to you what sort of direction he wanted to go in musically? No, he had these songs and he just thought the musicians coming together and doing it would pull out what would be the sound that he was looking for.
And the fact that the individuals within Foreigner had come from different backgrounds, like I had sort of a progressive rock background. And then, you know, two weeks after that, we had E.A. McDonald come in and he was in King Crimson. So he was like the beginning of progressive rock.
I mean, that’s what pretty much started it all. So the two of us had progressive rock, Dennis Elliott on drums. He came from a British group called If, who was sort of like a jazz rock band, like a Blood, Sweat & Tears type.
Help me find the way I want to live. What am I doing here? Where did I go wrong? I want to know. The singer Lou Graham, he came from a blues rock band called Black Sheep.
So we had all these influences coming together and making that sound that finally ended up being what you hear on the record. I could tell you how we got Lou into the band, which is kind of interesting. Please.
So after we had the band together, we were just instrumental. We did not have a singer. So our manager put us into a recording studio and we recorded four songs, just the music.
And to get a singer, we would audition people coming into the studio and singing live to the backing track. So we had about 50 singers come in one after another, and none of them fit what we were looking for. It was not a good moment for us.
But Mick remembered a band that he had played with on one of his tours, Black Sheep, and he had a record of it. And he remembered that the singer was really good. So he played the record again and he said, I think this might be it.
So he calls up Lou, who was in Rochester, upstate New York, and Lou says, well, Black Sheep had just broken up and I’m not really looking to get back into another band again. So Mick says, well, why don’t you think about it for a while and I’ll call you back. So a couple of days pass, Mick calls him back and talks Lou into coming down to New York City to audition.
So he comes into the studio, same thing, music stand up, lyrics there, headphones on, listens to Feels Like the First Time. We’re in the control room and Lou starts to sing. And within the second line of the lyrics, we said, that’s the guy.
I mean, it was just instantaneous. It just blew us away. We said, that’s the match.
So once you decided that Lou was your man, what happened then? Mick managed to talk him into joining? Obviously. Well, yeah, he became part of the band. So he put his vocal on all the other four tracks.
And then we had a demo tape, tape that you bring around to recording companies to see if you can get a record deal. We got rejected by every single record company, nothing, let down to say the least. How did you take that? I mean, you’d be filled with excitement.
I can imagine having found Lou Graham as your singer. You’ve got what you think are some fabulous songs and the record companies don’t want to know about you. Do you feel like giving up? What goes through your head then? Well, actually, two of the members did give up.
The two original members, we had a bass player and a drummer. They said, gee, this doesn’t look like it’s going to go anywhere. So, you know, they left.
But our manager said, you know what, I’m going to bring it back up to Atlantic Records, because I think that’s where you should be. I mean, Led Zeppelin was there. Rolling Stones were there.
I think that’s the place that this band should be. So we bring the tape back up to Atlantic to listen again. And this time it lands on John Kulogner’s desk and he listened to it and he said, I think this is going to be really big.
And he goes up to the president of Atlantic and he convinces Jerry to sign us. So we got our record deal, but now we don’t have all the members of the band because two of them left. So we had to audition again to get a bass player and a drummer.
Got the bass player and a drummer, rehearsed for about two weeks, went into the studio and did the first record, I think about October of 1976. What happened to it? Well, we recorded at Atlantic Records Studios in Manhattan in New York. The history of that studio is amazing.
Aretha Franklin did her records there and Ray Charles did his records there. So there’s a lot of history. Before the record came out, I had a listening party, had all my friends come down.
I’m playing the record. I’m really proud of it. You know what I’m saying? It was great.
And after it finished, they came over to me and said, that sucked. No. Yeah.
None of them liked it. But I understand. There’s a bit of jealousy there.
They’re musicians, too. So I could understand. And then it came on the radio.
It was the beginning of March of 1977 when they first started playing it. And when I first heard it on the radio, I was blown away. It just sounded so good.
And I was just like goosebumps up and down my arms. It was just crazy. And then the record just took off.
I mean, it just skyrocketed right out of the gate. The self-titled album was the first of six consecutive albums to be certified multi-platinum and to go top 10 in the US.
This is a Breath of Fresh Air with Sandy Kaye. It’s a beautiful day. Can you imagine how surprised the members of Forerunner were when in just four weeks from its release, their very first album went gold? At the time, it was the fastest recording to go gold by a debut artist, and it threw the band into a tailspin.
We had to get our stage act together because we never played together as a band before on stage. So we had to rehearse and get a stage set together and what we were going to do. We went on our first tour.
We opened for the Doobie Brothers, which was amazing. It was fantastic. It was probably the best thing we could have done because they’re a great guys and a great band, and it just worked out perfectly for us to get our act together.
What an amazing quick run to the top. You’ve gone from ground floor to the penthouse in four weeks flat. Was it a total whirlwind for you? Oh, yeah.
It just swept you away. I mean, there was no even thinking about it because it was just so much going on every minute. But it was amazing.
I mean, just thinking about it, it’s astonishing what we did and the people that have just took to us right away. I mean, as soon as that record came out, it started selling and we had an audience and it went platinum, I think, after eight weeks. And then we went on tour as a headliner because it got so popular, we went out on our own.
So we had to fill out a set of songs, which we only had the first record. So we had to put cover songs in there to fill out the set. And then we were headlining.
So it was just, wow. Through years of life, plans of future and past Until the heavenly gaze was sighted at last We were just out there and just being pulled in every direction at the same time. But it was a great feeling, I mean, to feel that you’ve reached a level of success at that point.
And for all the disappointments that you’ve gone through to get to that point, it makes it all worthwhile in the end. So what was it about that album that you think really sparked everybody’s imagination and people just had to have a copy? Well, one of the things, I mean, the reason that we were rejected by a lot of the record labels is they said that you’d never get this on Top 40 radio. There’s no way that you get a hard rock band being played because at that time it was all disco.
So they said there’s no way that a radio station is going to play this. But I think it struck a nerve because it was it was filling a void that was missing at the time. You know, a rock band playing singles, melodies and being played on Top 40 radio.
So that sort of, I think, sparked interest in a lot of people. Peter Frampton was also out there. The Doobie Brothers were also out there.
But I think we filled a niche that we found our own space. That album actually produced two top 10 singles in Feels Like The First Time and Cold As Ice. Who was writing all the stuff? Mick basically wrote 99% of the music and Lou would do the lyrics.
But Cold As Ice was written in the studio. We came in with that piano part and we joined in and put all the topping onto it. But that’s the first song that the actual six of us played on in creating it.
So that, to me, defined what Foreigner was. Cold As Ice. It has all the elements of that band.
The harmonies and the layering of the instrumentation. The prog influences. That has something special to me, Cold As Ice.
Was it written about anybody in particular? It was put together on one of the coldest days in New York City. So that sort of influenced the direction of what it was. And then you put it with a girl that’s as cold as ice.
It sort of fit kind of nice. But yeah, it was freezing that day. I’m not sure if I’m happy to hear that or not.
It destroys the love, what I grew up with. It’s great because every year when it gets cold, the radio, the DJ will play Cold As Ice. Then I guess the next quest was how do you match it with the follow-up album, right? Yeah, well, that’s the thing is to try to keep it going after that first record.
You have huge success. You have to follow it up with something that’s going to be even better, which is not an easy thing to do. And you can’t think about it.
You can’t say, well, gee, how can we make a song better? You just do the best that you can and hope that it does the same thing or better than what you had. So the Double Vision album in 78 was hugely successful. Actually, I think it outsold the first album, didn’t it? Yeah, it did about double of what the first record did, which was amazing, incredible.
You definitely knew you were onto something, didn’t you? Yeah, I think at that point you kind of realised that we’ve got something here and no looking back at that point. Feeling down and dirty, feeling kind of mean I’ve been from one to another extreme It’s time I had a good time, ain’t got time to wait It’s great Fill my eyes with that double vision Oh, this girl’s vision, boy, it’s new to me At the end of that record, we get a phone call. We’re just doing finishing touches.
And we get a phone call from our manager saying, I’ve got this show I want you guys to do. And we go, well, we’re in the recording studio. We’re not out on the road.
He says, no, no, no, you really have to do this show. And he wouldn’t tell us what it was. So we go, oh, OK.
So the next day we go into a rehearsal space, go through the set once, you know, just thinking, I don’t know what this show is. We’ll go and do it. Next day, we’re taken to the airport and we get in helicopters.
In about 20 minutes, I look down. I go, well, that’s a strange sight. I’ve never seen anything like that before.
And as we get closer, I realise it’s people. As far as the eye can see, it’s just people, just a crowd of people. So we land and they say, it’s California Jam 2. And there’s 300,000 people there.
And it’s going to be, you know, live on television. And we go, you know, we just rehearsed. It’s gone through the set, not really knowing what’s going on.
We pulled it off. But the one thing that we did do is we played Hot Blooded, which is a song on the Double Vision record. And we tried it out in front of 300,000 people for the first time.
And they loved it. And they loved it, yeah, it was great. Amazing.
The following year, you did it again in 79 with the third album, Head Games. And that one included a single, Dirty White Boy, that went up into the top 22. Tell us about that one.
Well, that album we did with Roy Thomas Baker producing it. He also produced the Queen records, along with Cars and you name it. He’s got a long list of production credits.
That record, yeah, that record had a bit of controversy with it because of the record cover itself with the young girl in a men’s bathroom, wiping her phone number off the bathroom wall. Oh, yeah, I remember it. So a lot of record stores refused to put it on their floor.
You know, they wouldn’t put it in their store. Why? I don’t know. Well, it’s weird, isn’t it, though, that not even 50 years later, we now have bathrooms that are for all genders.
Right. Well, times have changed. Yeah.
Back then they were… A woman in a men’s bathroom shouldn’t be seen. Yeah, couldn’t be seen. Plus the first single, which you mentioned, which was Dirty White Boy, could also be taken in a different way.
And some radio stations wouldn’t play it because of that. It took us a long time to get out of the gate with that record. But it has since sold quite a bit.
Hey, baby, if you’re feeling down I know what’s good for you all day And see Will it ruin your reputation Loving me My boy Star Actually, it was written about Elvis Presley. That’s the topic of the Dirty White Boy. What about Elvis? That he was the original Dirty White Boy, you know, from the South, and, you know, shaped his hips and sang the blues.
Right. Yeah. So what happened to you after that album? You decided that you’re going to quit the band.
Well, I think, like I said, it was a head games album. After that, since it didn’t go as well as the other records, you know, you start thinking about, well, what did we do wrong or what’s going on here? And things started to get a little bit fractured within the band. So I guess, you know, we wanted to part ways.
Ian left, I left, and that’s what it was. And I went on to do other bands. It was just kind of a strange period in Foreigner’s history after the head games record.
I guess there would have been an awful lot of pressure on the band to come up with a follow up from the first one, a follow up from the second one just as big. And your rise to fame and fortune was so vast. Yeah.
Maybe you hadn’t even had time to process that. It’s a bit of a roller coaster, isn’t it? Life like that. Yeah.
Well, it is because you’re living with a band that is basically your family. You have disagreements and things, ups and downs, and sometimes you take them in the wrong way. And head games, the song itself, is one of my favorite tracks that we’ve ever done.
And it’s outsold what the first record did since then. So it has garnered notoriety and a lot more than when it was originally released. So I’m happy for that.
But that period after that record was sort of like we looked… It was a very introspective time for the band members. In terms of where to look. Yeah.
Don’t show, don’t show how you feel No time to draw the line But I now can’t take it anymore Dream for hours it seems I keep thinking of you Al says there were loads of head games going on for the band members during that time, and he found himself having to step aside to allow for the change that appeared inevitable.
This is A Breath of Fresh Air with Sandy Kaye. It’s a beautiful day. No one was really surprised by the major stresses of the day.
They seemed to go hand in hand with fame and the band members continued to grapple with what they should do next. They wanted to try something else and it just wasn’t right. So arguments ensued then.
It’s a familiar story, isn’t it? Yeah, absolutely. After you left, they reduced the band to a quartet and they did album number four, which turned out to be Foreigner’s Breakthrough album in the UK. That one produced three hit singles.
Were you disappointed that you weren’t on that then? A bit. You’re not shy. You ain’t.
You think I’m the one. When I first heard Urgent on the radio, it was one of those moments where you stop the car. I was really happy for Mick.
He pulled out this hugely successful record again, which was beautifully done. Songs were just amazing. Do I regret being on? Well, maybe a bit, but I’m glad that it went onward and he could put something like that out.
I know for many of the British bands, all they ever wanted was to crack the US market. Was that the same for American bands wanting to crack the market across the Atlantic also? Oh, absolutely. We had a hard time getting into the UK and getting recognition there.
Can you pinpoint what it was about that album in 81 that managed to break through? Waiting for a Girl Like You was a ballad, so maybe that’s what struck a nerve there. Urgent was a great song. It was different in a lot of ways.
To pinpoint exactly what it was, I don’t know. I’ve been looking too hard I’ve been waiting too long Sometimes I don’t know what I will find I only know it’s a matter of time When you love someone When you love someone It feels so right, so warm and true I need to know if you feel it too Maybe I’m wrong Won’t you tell me if I’m coming on too strong This heart of mine has been hurt before This time I want to be sure I’ve been waiting for a girl like you To come into my life I’ve been waiting for a love that wins I’ve been waiting for someone to make me They went on in 84 to have their fifth studio album and included the biggest single that Foreigner ever had, which was I Wanna Know What Love Is. Great song.
Again, another ballad. Another ballad, but brilliant song. I mean, it was another driving in your car, comes on the radio.
I have to pull over to the side. I have to listen to it. After it was over, I said, you’ve got a number one here.
I mean, there’s no doubt about it. I was floored. It was just incredible song.
I mean, the lyrics, the melody. To me, it was an instant hit. All the parts of it were just brilliant.
Were you kicking yourself again? A little bit? You know, I just enjoyed being a part of Foreigner and that the success is going forward. I was just happy for Mick and Lou and the rest of the guys in the band because it’s not going to stop and it’s going to keep going. I mean, the one thing when you get into a band, you don’t think it’s going to last for a very long time.
Longevity of a band is probably maybe four or five years and that’s it. But here we are, we’re going into a decade and still putting out hits. Just loved it, you know, hearing that.
I’ve gotta take a little time A little time to think things over I better read between the lines In case I need it when I’m older I better read between the lines Now this mountain I must climb Feels like a world upon my shoulder Through the clouds I see love shine It keeps me warm as life grows colder In my life I don’t know If I can face it again Can’t stop now, I’ve traveled so far To change this lonely life I want to know what love is I want you to show me To show me We formed a band that’s out there now, The Present Band. I joined them with Rick Wills and we go out and we play all those songs and we did a reunion about six years ago and all of us were still together and we played all those songs again, which was amazing. You know, you never thought it would ever happen again, but we were playing, amazing.
We were very lucky in that it just kept going and going and going. And until today, I mean, we’re 47 years later and it’s still popular. I mean, we’re still on streaming services in the top 10.
It’s incredible. I would never have imagined it back then. After you left, you had your own successes.
We haven’t even touched on those. You did finally start your own band called Spies and you had two albums with them. After Spies, you met up with Joe Lynn Turner, who was the lead singer of Rainbow and Deep Purple.
You recorded with him. Very colourful guy. He is, we called him the Tasmanian Devil because he had so much energy.
He was just a burst of energy all the time. He put a great record out and that lasted maybe a year or two and then that disbanded. Do you ever get used to coming together with guys and disbanding and then finding a new lot and coming together and disbanding again? Or does each time leave you with a little bit of heartache? Yeah, there’s mixed emotions there.
Part of it says, well, I’m going to go on and do something better. And part of it is saying, wow, I really would have liked this to become something more than it was. You know, Lou left Warner as well.
Several times. Several times, yeah. So it’s one of those things.
It’s really hard to keep everybody together. Everybody has egos. Everybody has their own emotional personalities and how they deal with things.
And sometimes it all doesn’t fit into the same box at the same time. How do you manage to keep your sights high if it all kind of crumbles around you a lot of people would drown in that and go, oh, you know, okay, I’m going to go back to computer engineering or whatever. How do you manage to keep yourself half glass full? Well, for the most part, it’s because underneath it all, you are a musician.
That’s your life. You’ve lived it. All my life I’ve been in a band, being a musician.
And that’s what I knew. And I knew that best. And I relied on that for everything that I did.
So to say I was going to just toss it aside would be very, very difficult. I would just say, well, onward. You just persist.
You go, okay, what’s the next project? What’s the next thing? Who am I going to meet? What song am I going to write? What turn am I going to make at this next juncture? Did you have to work hard on yourself to get the attitude right? At times, yeah. At times it’s disappointing. Obviously it’s depressing because some things you think that are going to happen do not come to be.
But like I said, when Foreigner called me, I was not in a great place. I was putting my own band together after a band that I thought was going to make it disintegrated underneath me. So there was many times where I felt I’ve gotten this far and then things just did not go.
And we could have fallen apart with Foreigner when we got rejected by all those labels. I mean, it was very easy to say, well, that’s it, boys. You know, we’ll try something else.
It’s all a part of persevering and keep your head focused on what you want to do and move on. Yeah. Did you manage to stay in touch with all the guys from Foreigner? I know that two of the founding members, Ed and Ian, have both passed away, unfortunately.
But until such time, did you manage to stay close? Yeah, yeah. Well, both Ed Gagliardi and Ina McDonald were very good friends of mine. I do stay in touch with most of the members.
Rick and I are fairly close because we go out and do the shows with the present Foreigner band, who, by the way, are just amazing. Kelly Hanson and the rest of the guys are just phenomenal. They put on such a great show.
They respect the songs to a very high degree and they want to present it the right way. Al, what’s your favourite Foreigner song? Oh, I have a bunch of them. I think their last big hit was, that was yesterday, wasn’t it? I believe so, yeah.
Is that a song that you do live to? No. You know, there’s so many good ballads. I want to know what love is, and waiting for a girl like you, putting more than that in a set would be hard.
Congratulations on being inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. As you said at the outset, it is well overdue. An amazing career you’ve lived.
Well, you’re still living, aren’t you? And you’re still out there touring with the Foreigner band. It would be good if you came this way. That would be great.
I think that might be in the cards for next year. Who knows? I look forward to that. There’s a lot of things in the wind that you can’t talk about right now.
I can’t really talk about. I’m just still disappointed that Cold As Ice was written about the weather and not about a person. Well, it is about a person, but it was written when the weather was cold, so it came together in the right place.
I’m just kidding. Thank you so much for your time, Al. A real pleasure chatting with you.
Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Al Greenwood has written or co-written songs for a wide range of artists, including Deep Purple and Paul Rodgers.
He’s contributed as a musician and songwriter to the sale of over 80 million records worldwide. But have you ever wondered how Foreigner got its name? Well, it was Mick Jones who came up with it when he realised that as he, Elliot and McDonald were all British and Graham, Greenwood and Gagliardi were American, that meant at least half of the band would always be foreigners, no matter what country they were in. Thanks so much for your time today.
I hope you’ll join me again same time next week. Bye now. It’s a beautiful day You’ve been listening to A Breath of Fresh Air with Sandy Kaye.
It’s a beautiful day Oh, baby, any day that you’re gone away It’s a beautiful day