Welcome to a breath of fresh air
Hi, I’m so glad you could make it for a listen. I hope you’ve been having a fabulous week. My special guest today has often been referred to as a one hit wonder, because he and his partner wrote a song that they had massive success with in 1976. I know you remember this one
when you go to a new when you came home from a smooth
smoke from a distant fire was absolutely a huge hit for Johnny Townsend and his musical partner Ed Sanford. But there’s a whole lot more to both individuals and to the duo together than simply that song. I called up Johnny Townsend, the Alabama born blues and r&b singer and pianist to learn more about him. Johnny Townsend, welcome to a breath of fresh air. Thanks so much for sharing your time with us.
Well, thank you. I mean, I had nothing else to do this afternoon. So it was quite
how are you? What are you doing with yourself these days? Well,
not doing a lot of doing a lot of writing. I just got off the phone. Before I sat down here with my partner at Stanford. We’ve been getting together every Saturday with the hopes of we started this doing this thing before the COVID inception. And then when that came about, we just stopped what we were doing because we’d been rehearsing to do a two man show. And we were thinking about putting it in small theaters, which was all of a sudden instantly verboten. Because because the pandemic because anyway, we’ve got a great set of music worked up, we’re just waiting for an opportunity to do it, you know, and some to get some people interested. That’s fabulous.
Well, you came together with aid in the early 70s, didn’t you? Can you tell us a story about how the two of you found each other? Well,
Ed and I were playing just out of high school. Ed and I were playing in separate bands ahead is from a town 100 miles away from my hometown in Alabama. And we just ran into each other one summer, we were playing beach clubs in Panama, Panama City, Florida area on the coast, the Gulf Coast. And we were having a matinee one afternoon and they had walked in and to listen to the band. He was playing just down the street, no more than 100 yards from where we were playing. So he dropped in to see me and see the band. And after the after the set was over. He came up and introduced himself and said, you know, so I came I went down after we were doing to listen to him that night playing at this club called The Old Dutch which was an iconic kind of a club. Anyway, that started our relationship with it. You know, we went our separate ways. But a couple of years later, he had wanted to come to California I had an opportunity to come to California with a recording producer and their singer who was married at the time with kid on the way wasn’t it wasn’t going to do it. So they called me and I was already in California at the time I was hanging out with some friends of mine who are called the hourglass at that time. The hourglass later became the Allman Brothers
waiting
for it’s been a while since you see
you Much too.
Think gone much too long from the hourglass band. It was a group formed by Duane and Gregg Allman. But other members
of that band Johnny Sam and and Paul Hornsby all both became big time record producers not long after that alternate southern Roxy. Anyway, that’s how Edie and I originally got together. And we started. At one point, the band that we were at, that we were together with broke up, and it was just he and I left. And I was living in a little apartment and I had a great baby grand piano in the living in the living room and a bit and that was about it. Right? What else did you come over every day, and we would write songs and about after about six months of writing songs together, we decided to take it to the streets and see play a few clubs, little folk clubs, and eventually someone hurt us and scientists to a publishing deal and that was the beginning of our record.
Do. I got then our songs started getting around town to all the record companies. And before long there were two unknown songwriters with a bidding war going on between major record labels doing but that’s like, music business has always been like that. It’s always been like, there’s a kid over in the corner playing with a toy that no one else has picked up all day. And I mean, as soon as he picks it up, everybody wants it. Because that’s, that’s the way the music goes. In so many years.
But you didn’t start off as Sanford Townsend band, did you you started off as a band called Heart, no relation to the to the one that we all know called heart the girl band, and and was the keyboardist in that band. And when you when you found a little bit of success at that time, you played a whole bunch of concerts and open for Jimi Hendrix. Is that right? Did
Oh, that was an interesting thing. I think our managers were both on the same label of Reprise Records, which had originally been Frank Sinatra’s label, but it was absorbed into Warner Brothers and our managers ran into each other one, one day over of Warner Brothers and they found out that Jimmy was here on the West Coast and he’s been sitting around for a couple of months. He just finished a North American tour and Sunday but such a nice guy
got in yo
gotta go have
gone out a shoe mouth. You know, I caught him messing around with another man. And
I’m going down to zoom out and you know, I’m kind of messing around with another man.
He just says a North American tour and he wanted to do he wanted to play all the great musicians I want to play. And instead of sitting around for two months, they booked him about six or eight I forget exactly how many gigs we did with him. But it’s all on the West Coast. It was like secondary markets like Bakersfield, San Diego, Fresno, places like that and in their municipal auditoriums. And we got to know Jimmy at that time and it was a mean, such a super nice guy. I’d never met anyone in my life. That was such a natural on the day that we were taken up to his house. He was sitting around in his peasant pants and with no shirt on playing guitars. He had a like 50 of them laying around, and the truck from Fender from Fender Guitars had just left. I mean, he had guitars, like most people have ashtrays, and nice, you know, laying around. But he stopped whatever he was doing and was very cordial cars and stuff and said, well, great, well, you know, can’t wait to get this to do this. And we were just a guest we you know, we’re here I am open wide open mouth with the the number one touring act in the world at that time, and just being which I found of all really great artists, they’re super nice people, you know, they really are
and sounds like quite down to earth to. Oh, yes,
very much. So Well, I had related to him. Back in my in a previous band that I was in down south, we played a little show. And in St. Louis, it was a little club called Mississippi knights. And we had a night off and it was Monday night and it was oh, Wilson Pickett is playing at the Municipal Auditorium. So the band went for most of the band. I think there’s about four of us. And we were the only white guys in the audience because it was Wilson tickets audience and we were just amazed we were sitting there like about 20 rows back and nobody noticed us because there’s the media, it was all about the music. And it was there was no difference because we were all fans of what was going on on stage and that it was a time of some some pretty interesting racial tensions in our area of the country. But I told him me that when I met him again as it doesn’t, you know, did I see you with Wilson Pickett playing guitar you know, he says it cuz we would my guitar playing. I was sitting there all night going, Who is this? blankety blank guitar player? He’s playing left handed upside down. And then Jimmy says, yeah, that was me. That was before first gig I had right out of the army was with Bill Wilson. Pickett. He said Wilson fired me because on a recommendation of a friend,
you remember a song that they played together at the time I don’t hear every song
that Wilson Pickett had a hit with 634 or 5789 Mustang Sally. All of his big his
Mustang inside
this Shoe Man Mustang
let’s
get you mad or slow you
guess I have to put
there was Jimmy plan.
After hat. You became Sanford Townsend bandwidth Ed. How come he got top billing?
Oh, because I’m such a nice guy.
He might say that.
He was older than
me. And you went back to your home state and did some work with Jerry Wexler at the Muscle Shoals studios. Is that right?
We actually met with Jerry out here. He was in LA to do something else I forget exactly what but he had learned that we were from Alabama and then we had originally done our what original recordings we had done in Muscle Shoals. And so we had lunch with him one day with our manager. And he said that he’s hola he said, I love the music. I would like to record you and we were the first band that he had ever recorded. He’d already he’s always worked with solo artists like Aretha Franklin by Charles he discovered great jobs
What do you say? Back no money no money back
mean good amoenus Oh my man I’ve ever seen against him. You show up after pragma things and go Jack Magno. Jack
Jack, come back. No more No more. Hit the road to come back.
I think after that it opened him up. He did Dire Straits after us. We produce them with their first big kids and stuff so Wow.
Well he was the stuff
interesting man. I mean the guy is was so iconic in the business. I worked with the guy.
He was the real deal with me.
Absolutely. But you know the funny thing that I found out about him is that he couldn’t read a note of music be played didn’t never played an instrument or anything but he had these ears. He had these ears that he could hear things that he says that’s good and it will be successful you know, I can make that successful.
And of course he was right with you because he produced that classic hit that you guys had with their smoke from a distant fire didn’t he?
Just he did I was very flattered because not long before Jerry passed away he put out a list of his all time top 20 favorite songs that he’d ever worked with. And I think we’re we’re listed right around 14 Number 14 Still and Jerry Wexler is top 20 I can can handle that
you left me here on your way to Paris you pull the rug out from under miles away you go to a new when you came home last night from the smooth
Lord I was stone shooter seated calm a long time ago when I realized the reality gave me a role things are the same then explain why your kiss is so cool.
smoke from a distance five rows all the way to number nine on the Billboard Hot 100 and the Sanford Townsend group spent the next few years touring the world alongside pets like Fleetwood Mac, the Marshall Tucker band Charlie Daniels and many more in the air to hear what comes next
is a breath of fresh air with Sandy Kay.
It’s a beautiful day.
Thanks for being here. I hope you’re enjoying the show. As we’ve heard, Alabama born Johnny Townsend had been greatly influenced by classic soul and r&b artists like Otis Redding, Ray Charles and Wilson Pickett. But wait a minute, we haven’t really discovered where it all started for him.
You know, the early days my old friend Eddie Hinton, who was in Muscle Shoals I grew up grew up with Eddie was one of the first people that inspired me, he wrote a bunch of hits, like cover me for Percy sledge and he wrote some stuff left for Dusty Springfield, that was a big hit. And he’s one of the guys that inspired me to do and what I was doing in high school and how I got started in thinking I was a senior in high school and in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, in Tuscaloosa is about 60 miles from the Mississippi State Line. We used to travel over to Columbus, Mississippi, who was just on the other side of the state line, because if you were old enough to reach over the counter, they’d sell you beer, when you were 1718. And we used to go over there and on the way back home one night, my friend Jimmy hit, he’d been taking some guitar lessons and I started singing to the radio on the way back and he’s uh, Wow, you got a pretty good voice. You come over my house one afternoon, and we did and we worked up several Jimmy Reed songs and then and it was I loved it so much that it was game over. That’s it. Yeah, it isn’t something I want to do. Because this is fun. I really wanted to write songs. And because I thought I had a knack for, you know, making that stuff. My first songs that I were that I started writing, we’re actually making up dirty words to songs that were already actually existed when I was playing with this band. My band in college called was the rubber band and we had a little hit call. Let love come between us. By
the way if you
stop all this first
there was a regional hit and it was later recorded by James and Bobby purifies Mavis Staples recorded the song Pointer Sisters recorded the same that song and that got to start like wow, you know, you can actually make money doing this
and money Johnny Townsend started to make, especially after he and partner Ed Sanford wrote the song smoke from a distant fire. They unexpectedly found themselves with a huge hit on their hands. Tell me a little bit about smoke from a distant fire who wrote it? What was it about give me some of the backstory
was an interesting way that it started. It was right at a time where it and I had written all the songs and we had appointments, we were setting up appointments with publishers around town, I wanted to it was living in an apartment down in the Fairfax area. And I always dropped by him because he didn’t have a car at the time. So I dropped by and I pick him up and we’d go into my little Volkswagen around town around Hollywood to all these appointments. And I got there early one day and it had been had trouble sleeping the night before because his roommate Steven, who was the CO writer on smoke monistic fire had been up playing classical guitar all night. He in Steven was one of these guys that if I can’t be box, life isn’t worth living. And he was obsessive about playing. He was sick with a music stand on with a cup of coffee and, and play all night. And it was just like he he kind of he comes in and he’s just scattered. He’s really. And he goes, as he says, Steven, he says what? He says what are you gonna stop playing that crap, and write something that’s gonna make you some money. And so Stephen said, turned around, and he was making himself some more coffee at the time, he turned around and picked up his guitar. And he says, anybody can write that stuff. And he starts playing this riff. But that’s kind of nice. Why don’t you come in the living room with a piano. Let’s play that one more time. Because A, okay and the minor. That’s very nice. We really liked that riff. And so right there, and then over coffee before he was even awake. I started playing the song of playing the song that Steven was playing, and he and he continued. And then I came up with an auto B section to the song. And then we all started throwing lyrics at it. And it’s something that actually all of us started out as a joke, basically, or anybody can write that stuff. Well, not everybody can write that stuff. And it just it was one of those moments where everyone got focused real quick, because there was something really good on the tape. And we all knew it at the time. And so we finished it and didn’t think anything of it, that it was any more special than any of our other songs but it was Jerry Wexler that took that song and made it special
just making this class with you
when you come home
from school
title of the song came I had just read a couple of days before Op Ed had written this poem that this girl that he just broke up with and Kyle, and it was like a really heart rending letter. And he had the phrase in there like smoke from a distant fire. I knew something was going on like that I could see the smoke from a distant fire. And it was just a lie. It was a line out his poem. I took that line and I put it as the punch line for this song. And like in no time at all, like in a matter of an hour or two, we had the song tossed out and we were all really pleased with ourselves at the time and never knew that it was going to be as big and as successful as it was but you never do. It’s all a very big engine. string ride for many years now. And I wanted the creative part in the song has always been one of my favorite parts because that’s the part that I really get off on. I love jumping in. I always love puzzles and anagrams and things like that. And putting together a song is very similar to that we’re using I got a lot of unknowns and a few clues and you just take some things and piece them together. Hopefully, if your craftsmanship is worthy, then you’ll come up with something good
was top 10 material and everyone was singing, it
certainly was specially for us.
There are a lot of people that tell me that when you have a hit like that, it gets really difficult afterwards, because you want to try and come up with something just as good that’s going to reach the top of the charts. Did you have that problem?
Well, yeah, it’s an obvious problem. And we didn’t want to go everyone said you should write something similar. And on No, I don’t think so we wrote that. That one’s been written. You know, let’s, let’s do another one. So we wrote a lot of other songs. But it was just interesting how it all fell together and then kind of fell apart after a while because Ed and I were on the cusp of of a musical of a genre change within the industry. We were right on the heels of a lot of really good stuff that we related to and identified with and I think not long after smoke from a distant fire was a hit. The new wave and the punk generation of music started came about Warner Brothers actually opened up a separate wing of the record company to accommodate that they signed the Sex Pistols to be 50 twos. Not for four or five other groups at the time and it was like okay, and then the same month that our next record was came out. It was the Fleetwood Mac the big Fleetwood Mac album I think it was the follow up to the rumours album came out. And we had been on the road with Fleetwood Mac for a year and a half we were over there opening act for a long time.
Everybody Warner Brothers is not showing Fleetwood Mac records on to the truck. A lot of them pick them off the record stores and we were kind of we came yesterday’s news and Warner Brothers stuck with us stuck with us for a while they we did we finished the second album release that and did a third album but it was the top of our time and past. It was just that quick.
How did that feel? So you Johnny Townsend, you must have felt like oh, it’s over the time has passed as you just said, how do you handle that?
Well, you have to just realize that that’s true of everything. Everything is fleeting in this life. You know, I mean, you know, relationships, how long the relationships lasts, how long are marriages last? How long does How long have people span of attention last over? I mean, even the greatest artists? I mean, here’s who’s who I don’t even know who’s huge right now. Because there’s guys out there like Warren G. They’re just selling millions of records, but he’s one of the few rap guys that I know, are top artists. It’s interesting.
I’ve had the conversation with others to say, you know, who do you think that radio station DJs are going to be calling up and talking about in 50 years time of the of the current artists and and we can’t really think of many maybe Taylor Swift the music is very different today than what it was then. And I think that everything old has become new again anyway.
Right? Well, you know, country music is really no longer country music anymore. There’s no longer George Jones and The Great American troubadours like Kris Kristofferson
busted flat he bappy rouge, hidden for the trains. valen live feed it is my jeans Bobby D zoo down just before it rain took us all the way to New Orleans to my heart my dirty red bandana was blue and sad while Bob is saying blues with them windshield wipers slapped in time and Bobby clapping hands we finally sang have failed the sound bad drive and Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose nothing name were nothing, but it’s free. Feeling good was easy, loving, bother saying blue. Feeling good was good enough. Good enough, me and Bobby
Hank Williams, Merle Haggard, just people that their songs came right out of them. You know, nowadays and in places like Nashville and they sit around like a bunch of lawyers and accountants sit around a big table deciding what songs the artists are going to record. There have been a few artists in the business anymore. And in the rap in the hip hop genre. There’s that you see like anywhere from eight six to eight writers on each song, there’s one person writes the groove, one person writes the beat one price was the verse, another guy writes the hook. And it’s, it’s taken the art out of it. It’s all pretty simple. It’s like paint by numbers kind of a thing. You know, it’s like, we’ve got a picture of what a hit record should look like. And let’s, let’s fill in these colors because these colors were before I like a lot of it. But the stuff that I tend to like seems to come out of one person. The stuff that I really will the songs that because it tells me something about that person who’s the artists that a lot of the stuff doesn’t tell me anything about who’s delivering this message.
Today like today best Oh, put you on the spot there.
You put me on the spot. I listened to the Doobie Brothers I listened to Eagles I listen to if I was listened to 40 years ago, which I know is I’m in denial
night
I was thinking to myself this could be this good thing and she showed me that there were buses down this
welcome
I just don’t hear the melody and a lot of the music these days I don’t hear the tension between melodies and the chord structure underneath and the lyrics that are being delivered. That’s where the good stuff is. That’s where we’re all those those three things when they start when they cross paths. They strike you and you go. Wow, that’s great.
So what’s one of your favorite songs?
Oriental gate that was on a first album that was that we co wrote with Kenny log. That’s a favorite of mine. In fact, that was really one of our first introductions to notoriety is because that song the very first American song festival that song won a huge award. Oriental gate, you know all the songs every one time I hear. They bring back memories and that one brings back some special memories from
outside your O’Regan Tollgate wondering if it’s Too late to wait for you to come walking up your August night blue and breezy cool. I feel like a damn fool because I’ve got a good woman cried at home in bed but there’s a fire burning in MASL water clear ran
with they seem great to get the dark they the Sanford Townsend band. Don’t go anywhere. It’s much more to come from Johnny Townsend. This is a breath of fresh air with Sandy Kay.
It’s a beautiful day.
Welcome back. Johnny Townsend’s been chatting about how music has changed over the years. I don’t want to interrupt him.
Just last night I was walking my dog and listening to the Doobie Brothers song taking it to the street. I was dancing down the sidewalk because it’s such an exciting record and it’s such a great message to you know you don’t know me but I’m your brother I was raised here in this living hell you know as it’s great lyrics it’s great music and Michael just sings his butt off I don’t really get off with people shaking their finger in my face
you don’t know
the? Street
let’s just go back to you again Johnny Townsend because you said you were writing a lot for the likes of Kenny Loggins and Greg all and Larry Carlton and a whole bunch of others then you fill out with a didn’t you was that as a result of the change of genre and the record companies kind of making you feel new yesterday’s news.
That was to some degree, I mean, Ed and I are still very good friends. We have been all these years. And it just got to the point where it wasn’t profitable for us. So after almost eight years on the road, we were still not making any money. We were still opening acts we would do some gigs like with ambrosia or Pablo Cruz, but it got to the point of where we just weren’t getting enough shows to make it worthwhile and we had to go try something else. We’ve had other successes that say well let me we’ve written songs for other people. I was writing songs to Kenny Loggins for Larry Carlton and a lot of it might Sanford wrote a huge hit for Michael with Michael McDonnell. I keep forgetting it was a big hit for him
yeah
forget forget forget.
We were both married at the time, we had to support our families and we just had to make a move. So I went to his house one day and I just said listen, I said we had written just written a bunch of new songs. arcs. But we didn’t we no longer had the recording contract with Warner Brothers and you
continued writing during that time. Which one would you say was your favorite?
The people that I co wrote with? I really enjoyed writing with Larry Carlton because he’s such a fabulous musician. He’s played on most of my favorite records. So some one of the Steely Dan things. But I enjoyed one called the magicians, lightning strikes twice album.
After that you started doing some solo work, didn’t you?
I did. And a lot of commercials too. A lot of commercials. I sang a lot of commercials and wrote a few. And those were very lucrative at the time. So I was able to maintain a presence in the music industry, by not actually being in the music industry.
Does that continue to this day? That that’s something
else that changed with the advent of Pro Tools. Pro Tools came along. I mean, the producers that I used to work forth for in the film and TV in the commercial industry, they would get these huge budgets from these ad agencies that would say, Okay, here’s $40,000 Make me a Taco Bell commercial, actually, was some of the ones I did Buick, and Levi’s did a couple of Levi’s ads. And they were fun. But you know, it’s not really art. It’s another thing where if something was just like, you know, fit something and painted by numbers, I enjoyed working with the people. But with the advent of Pro Tools, every kid on the block now has Pro Tools. And so instead of the big budgets, they can give some good $1,000 And say, for this and get the same kind of product, it stays the same in for a lot less money and bam, overnight that change to
say a lot of changes, haven’t you? Yeah, well,
I still get royalties. There’s a very nice,
gotta be grateful for that. In the early 90s, you joined Greg Allman and his band for a bit you toured with them for several years. And then you started the taller Townsend band with the Allman Brothers guitarist Dan Tola, and his brother, David Tyler, what was that like?
Oh, it’s fun. It’s really fun. I’ve known Greg and Duane Allman since our days remember I told you the story about playing with Wilson Pickett well, that same band when we were playing like in Florida, we met Greg and Dwayne were playing in a little club they were like 15 and 16 years old playing and on fake IDs in bars. And we walked in one night and once again who is this guitar player and the singer was just wonderful
was again
wrong
trying to make a living
became friends with them and because they lived in the South, and they were always touring and driving through my my hometown was a university town, which was always a lot of parties, a lot of this and that which bar the lower level bands would play fraternity parties. All manner of gigs are centered around the university basically in the activities. So they would come through and over the years, we just became very good friends. And when they went to California, within months, they had a record deal recording deal with Liberty records. The name of the band was the hourglass, but they were being produced. They weren’t writing they weren’t doing what they weren’t really wanted to do. They were doing Carole King Saul. That’s the point. Do this bring them to record and they recorded them beautifully and Greg sang the heck out there’s a song called no easy way down which is a Carole King song. With the hourglass doing it you go wow this is great. But it wasn’t what they wanted to do it wasn’t the blues
the sky but now it moves to the
just
no
Duane had become obsessed with playing slide guitar, so they had to go through a growth spurt with that while they were like, Okay, why? And if you got that, yeah, sounded pretty bad.
So what you’re telling me is by the time you got on the road with them in through the 90s and 2000s, they had the opportunity to do exactly what they wanted to do.
Absolutely, absolutely. Because Dwayne went back and he slept in his car for several days outside Muscle Shoals of fame studios and Muscle Shoals, Alabama, trying to get a gig, kind of hoping somebody would would hire him. And soon as somebody found out who he was and how well he could play, they were bringing him in the studio on Wilson Pickett save he paid on Wilson pickets, hey, Jude, he played on some Aretha Franklin stuff, and started to get a name for him. And everybody said, wow, this guy is really, you know, through the roof. Let’s put some people behind them. So they put a band together behind Dwayne. And they called up Phil Walden and Macon, Georgia and said, Would you manage this guy and his band and helping put the finish putting this band together. And so by the time they started playing, Dwayne found Butch trucks and Barry Oakley to fill out the thing. We were living here in Studio City in California for a while and Greg was sleeping on our couch was he was doing nothing at the time, either. So it gets to a point where Dwayne says, there’s only one singer for this band, and that’s my brother. So we helped Greg pack, put him on the road, took him to the airport to go back to MC and the rest of that is history. During that whole little era, there was like about a six or eight month here where he was six weeks, we had a little rehearsal room that was a converted garage was egg cartons paste into the walls. And Greg and I would sit out there at night and write songs. I learned how to write songs from Greg Allman. And I went wow, you know, and during that period, he wrote several of the songs that were on the first couple of brothers records. So I was really fortunate to be hanging around him at that time, because I really learned a lot. He’s a very reckless and very bright guy.
And what about Dan Tola? How was it working with him?
Oh, Danny. Yeah, I missed that guy. So much. Danny was out. We’re working on our second album when he came down with ALS. And it was just such a heartbreaking scene, but he’s probably the most musical person I’ve ever worked with. I’ve been playing since he’s like eight years old, and his dad used to bring them home Johnny Smith records and all these great jazz artists, just give him give him anything and he didn’t even have to You didn’t have to tell him what the chords were I would sit when we’ve played with Dan. Here this band called The Renegades with George McCorkle from the Marshall Tucker band and Jack Hall from what really and few other of our friends from Southern rocker Janee played with the Allman Brothers and Dickey Betts and all these people. When Danny was soloing and I was singing I’d step back off the stage out of his lights for Danny would be in front of the stage and I just get goosebumps because that guy was so good and he just had a way about him. He was such a sensational guy. Take
one
step back. See it’s not
so the first thing and over
To the strike too close to Lamar
What’s
up Johnny Townsend, what a treat talking with you? Thank you so much for joining us.
Lovely Sandy. Thank you
that was founder and lead singer of the Sanford Townsend band Johnny Townsend, who really redefined Southern rock in the 70s. As a footnote, Johnny and Edie are about to become the latest inductees into the California Music Hall of Fame. Joining artists like Billy Payne from little feet, Buffalo Springfield’s Richie fury, and Three Dog night’s Chuck Nick grant. Thanks so much for your time today. It’s been really great having you with me. Don’t forget if you’d like to request a guest, just jump onto my website a breath of fresh air.com.au and let me know who you’d like to hear from. I’ll be looking forward to being back in your company again, same time next week. By now.
You’ve been listening to a breath of fresh air with Sandy Kay.
It’s a beautiful
day