Welcome to A Breath of Fresh Air with Sandy Kaye. Hi, welcome to today’s episode of A Breath of Fresh Air, a show that delves deep into the lives of big-name musicians who crafted the hits of the 60s, 70s and 80s. Today we’re paying homage to the Welsh guitarist, harmonica player and vocalist, Spencer Davis, who became one of the eldest statesmen of mid-60s British rock.
Between 65 and 67, the Spencer Davis Group was one of the hottest names around. Their chart-topping singles, Keep On Running, Somebody Help Me and I’m A Man, were simply huge. I was 17.
I had a girl, she was my queen. She didn’t love me like I loved her. Now I’m alone.
Now I’m so lonesome on my own. Sadly, Spencer Davis passed away in 2020, but his daughter Sarah suggested we chat with one of his bandmates and best friend to find out more. So I called up Ed Tree on her suggestion and learned that Ed himself is a producer, engineer, guitarist and songwriter with over 30 years experience.
Ed’s produced more than 120 albums for a variety of artists and has recorded and toured not only with the Spencer Davis Group, but with people like Rita Coolidge, Deuce Newton and Al Stewart. Hi, Sandy. How are you? Hi, Ed.
We’re talking to you because you were a great friend of the late Spencer Davis. I started working with him in 1982. Some of my favorite times with Spencer was when we were making the So Far CD.
We were at the end of a rehearsal one day and I said, Spencer, how did you start doing this? What was the genesis? And he started his biography from the time his uncle Herman showed him how to play mandolin up through very early days of the group and issues with his father wanting to be a civil servant as opposed to being a musician. He talked for about an hour, which wasn’t hard for him. And I was just writing down song titles the entire time we were talking.
And then I held up a sheet of paper and said, Spencer, here’s your autobiographical record. We have to write these songs. We have to make this record.
It was such a wonderful experience having him come sit down at a coffee table in the studio with a couple of acoustic guitars. And we sat there with these song titles and wrote these songs and then got the band together and recorded the album. What do you know about his early life? When he started the Spencer Davis Group, it was with Stevie Wynwood on vocals.
He was the younger brother of Muff Wynwood, and he’d seen the two of them playing in a pub somewhere and thought, this guy is amazing, this young Stevie Wynwood. Tell us what Spence says about that. What I remember of that story from Spencer was that he was doing a solo gig.
He played an acoustic 12-string, did folk blues. And Long John Baldry was a friend of his that was kind of doing the same thing with this Zomidas 12-string. So he got a gig playing intermissions at this club in Birmingham.
And the owner of the club said, you know, you’re quite good. I would have you play the whole night if you had a group. And Pete York said, I’m working with this bass player named Muff Wynwood.
So they went to the Wynwood’s house and Muff said, well, you should meet my little brother. And then, of course, then there’s the amazing Stevie Wynwood at whatever, 16 or 17, playing piano and singing and playing guitar. And so Spencer’s like, well, okay, he can come along too.
And they started to work in a club in Birmingham. Stevie Wynwood had this gritty voice that was way beyond his years. Spencer recognized his talent immediately.
Yeah, absolutely. Oh, that’d be hard to miss, wouldn’t it? Once I lived the life of a millionaire. Spent all my money, didn’t have a care.
Taking all my friends out for a mighty good ride, bootleg liquor, champagne and wine. Then I began to fall so low. Didn’t have a penny, had no place to go.
If I ever lay my hands on a dollar again, I’m gonna hold on to it till the eager greens. Nobody loves you when you’re down. And your friends, you don’t have it.
Spencer seemed to have a talent for picking great musicians right from the get go. His uncle taught him how to play not only the mandolin, but the harmonica. And so he grew up in Swansea.
His playground was that bombed city during the blitz. His love of music was kindled at a very tender age, of course, before he met Stevie and Muff Wynwood. So they decided to form the Spencer Davis Group.
But Spencer was still at school. He’d begun to work in the civil service as a clerical officer at the post office. But he was quite good at school and went on to study his A-levels in languages, becoming the head boy at school in 1959.
He moved to Birmingham in 1960 to read German at the University of Birmingham. And apparently in music circles sometime later, Spencer Davis was known as the professor. Yeah, absolutely.
So he was a very clever man. Oh yeah, very smart, very quick and very funny. What music had he been influenced by? I think he fell in love with acoustic blues.
Very eclectic taste and a music lover to the end. You said that he was also friendly with and a big fan of Long John Baldry. Yeah, yeah.
We did a New Year’s gig in Vancouver once with Long John Baldry. That was a lot of fun. I don’t want to hear no rock talk.
I’m speaking to go on and shut your mouth. You know, you don’t know what it’s all about. It ain’t a matter of confidence that’s gonna justify your soul.
In those early days, it wasn’t long then until they put their first song out, was it? Right. They had run into Chris Blackwell. They were signed to Island Records.
They were also backing up some different blues musicians that were going through England and would be just touring without a band. So they would pick up the local musicians to back them up. So that must have been quite an educational experience.
Guys from Birmingham playing with Sonny Boy Williamson and the like, you know. Because of course, this was all part of the first wave of the British invasion, wasn’t it? Right. And they had a number one hit in the UK with a couple of single releases in 1966.
The first was Keep On Running. That just went gangbusters, didn’t it? Yeah, that groove and that voice. I think that was a Jackie Edwards song.
A Jamaican guy that Blackwell had found. Oh yeah, I’m gonna be your man. Keep on running, running from my arms.
Oh yeah, I’m gonna be your man. After that one came Somebody Help Me. That was another big one.
And then Steve Wynwood, he was singing all the vocals, wasn’t he? He just smashed it out with I’m a Man in 1967. Did Spence talk about those early hits, how they changed his life? I don’t know that we talked so much about how it changed his life. But he did talk a little bit about it, about working with Jimmy Miller, the producer that later went on to work with the Stones, who added a lot to the rhythm track of Give Me Some Love.
And like a lot of the percussion stuff that maybe was not so common in records and where you would just have your basic lineup of guitars, keys, bass and drums. And Jimmy was very much into adding cowbell shakers, claves, other things to excite the track. Was Spencer Davis surprised by the success that he met with those three hits? We can only guess.
I know that he had a lot of drive. So I know that that’s something that he would have been pushing towards. And there must have been a lot of excitement about the group and other friends of theirs that were having hits.
So maybe he was surprised. Maybe he was feeling like, yeah, this was the next logical step. I’m a man, yes I am, and I can’t help but love you so.
No, no, no. I’m a man, yes I am, and I can’t help but love you so. Well, if I had my choice of color, I would rather be with you.
Or in close encounter, showing where our minds are at. And relating to each other, just how strong a will can be. In resisting all airtime, I’m winging through the chase we seek.
I’m a man, yes I am, and I can’t help but love you so. No, no. Well, I’m a man, yes I am, and I can’t help but love you so.
Oh, let me never turn my eyes out. I’ve got to keep my image. Watch the friends from afar.
Yes, I am, and I can’t help but love you so. No, no, no. I’m a man, yes I am, and I can’t help but love you so.
No, no. Yes, I am. No, no.
Yes, I am. Yes, I’m a man. Yes, I’m a man.
He’d certainly devoted his entire life up until then to music, hadn’t he? There was nothing else on his radar. Exactly. Exactly.
What about when Stevie Winwood left the group? Did he talk about that at all? I’m sure that was very disappointing to him. I know that he was looking forward to touring the U.S. And I don’t think the Spencer Davis Group ever toured the U.S. with Stevie. So that was, I’m sure, like pulling the rug out.
But being a guy who, you know, like I said, he had a lot of drive. I don’t think he waited long before grabbing Eddie Harden and reforming the group and proceeding. The demise of that original Spencer Davis Group, were they ever as good afterwards? Certainly when you take a superstar out of a group, it’s never going to be the same.
And I guess at that point you can either say, okay, I’m just going to quit, or say, let’s proceed and make more good music. So that had to be a big blow, especially not getting to really capitalize on those hits at that point. If they’d gone on for another two years, and then after their big show at Woodstock, if they’d split, you know, that would have been an entirely different story.
So they virtually had those three hits in a row, and soon after called it quits? Yeah, yeah. How disappointing. Yeah, very much so.
He doesn’t want to talk no more. Don’t let him talk no more. Spencer Davis had been hooked on the guitar and the American rhythm and blues music making its way across the Atlantic since he was 16.
During the period in which he moved to Birmingham as a student some years later, he formed a musical and personal relationship with a girl by the name of Christine Perfect. Christine later married John McVie, and as Christine McVie, became a core member of the British group Fleetwood Mac.
This is a Breath of Fresh Air with Sandy Kaye. It’s a beautiful day. At the height of their power, Steve Winwood left the Spencer Davis Group to form his own band, Traffic.
He yearned to explore a more expansive range of styles and managed to do exactly that with the new group. Meanwhile, his brother Muff also left Spencer Davis to become an A&R executive at Island Records. Let’s see.
Keep on sliding through a smooth view. You’ll be amazed at the days and the places, the place I take you. How would you describe Spencer Davis? What sort of a person was he? He was just a delightful, smart, funny, generous guy and a great conversationalist.
Just a very, very good friend. He started up another version of the group in 1973, but they disbanded by 1974. After that, he moved to California and recorded an acoustic album that was mid-71.
It’s been so long since you’ve been gone. I can’t wait no more. The money that you promised me Did not come through my door But I have found a way to live I never take, I only give The sun goes down, the moon comes up Night just drags on by I have no home, my mind is blown Friends drift on like time Do you know what brought him to this? Did you move from the UK to California? I don’t.
I would move anyway, if nothing else, just for the weather. Right. He followed that album up with a solo album called Mousetrap, but that one didn’t do very well either.
So he then moved back again to the UK, formed a new Spencer Davis group. He was relentless, wasn’t he? He just didn’t give up, no matter what happened to him. Was that part of his DNA? Absolutely.
Spencer was about ten years older than me and I remember going through Heathrow, we’d flown from LA to Heathrow, we were leaving Heathrow and flying to Munich and we had very little time to catch our flight and I couldn’t keep up with him. He did not seem to age until much later on when everyone else was slowing down, he was still the energizer bunny. He had twice the energy of everybody else.
He also got involved in the business of music too because he had worked with a whole lot of different artists and he continued promoting Stevie when while he was in traffic. Was that just the sort of person he was? Very pragmatic that way. If there was an opportunity and it was within his skill set, he wouldn’t back off from doing that.
He’d be like, okay, let’s do this. So he became a promoter for Island Records and as such he worked with people like Bob Marley and Robert Palmer and Eddie and the Hot Rods. But as I said, he also promoted the solo career of his former bandmate Steve Winwood.
So there were obviously no hard feelings between the two. Did he remain friends with Steve? I think they maintained a relationship for a long time. Ed Treaso, tell us how you met Spencer Davis.
Well, it’s sort of a tale of saying yes. I was doing a lot of studio work at that time and I got a call to play on a novelty record called Rock That Rubik’s Cube. So it’s another day at the office.
Yes, I’ll come do that. And the drummer on the session was a guy named Steve Chapman. He’s a Brit, very good drummer.
So we did the session and a couple of days after that I ran into Steve Chapman at an Andy Frazier showcase in Hollywood just randomly. Oh, well, you know, it was a great session. Great to see you.
And then a couple of days after that, Steve Chapman calls me and says, Hey Ed, listen, I’m going on a tour with Spencer Davis. It’s the bass player from Poco and was also British. And Steve was in Poco and the keyboard player from Poco named Kim Bullard, who I did know somewhat.
So it’s three members of Poco and Spencer. And there was a British guitar player that was doing it and they had kicked him out. And they only had a couple of days to prepare to go on the road.
And he said, are you available? I said, well, I have things on my calendar, but I could probably clear it if it’s a 10-day tour. I can move some things. So I went to what I thought was an audition.
They asked me if I could play this one lick. I said, OK, you got the job. Which lick was it that they wanted you to play? I don’t remember, but it was something simple.
So I had the job. I just didn’t know. I thought I was going to an audition, but they had already decided that I was the guy.
Steve had said, yeah, he’s good and he’s quick, so he can run the show and run rehearsals. Won’t somebody help me out? Can somebody help me now? Won’t somebody tell me what I’ve done wrong? When I was just a little boy of 17, I had a girl, she was my queen. She didn’t love me like I loved her.
Now I’m home, sitting on my own. We had one rehearsal, and then I was on the road. And that was 1982.
One rehearsal to learn the full set list. How do you manage that? Well, part of it is, I guess, a common vocabulary. I was a Spencer Davis fan.
When I was in high school, I had gotten his first record. So I had been hearing those songs for years. So it wasn’t something foreign to me.
It’s not like joining Yes or something like that, you know. And you were in awe of Spencer Davis, too. It must have been such a great thing for you to join him on the road.
It was. I grew up in a small town in Mississippi. I was born in New Orleans.
And just one interesting thing about the British blues is that I grew up about seven miles south of where Robert Johnson was born, and about 18 miles north of where Bo Diddley was from. And the very first Robert Johnson song I heard was on a John Mayall record being sung by Eric Clapton. So it was the British, of course, that sent the music from my neighborhood to me.
Then I discovered those musicians. And when I was 19, I opened a show for Mississippi Fred McDowell. You got to move.
You got to move. You got to move, child. You got to move.
But one and all. Get ready. You got to move.
It’s really ironic that it took the British to bring it to your ears. So what was it like on that first tour with Spencer Davis? It was just really, really a kick. One of the funny things was that Charlie was from the Birmingham area, and in the morning he would start talking, and I couldn’t understand him.
He had a heavy Midlands accent. And Steve Chapman, the Londoner, would be the interpreter and say what he said was, and Spencer would say, the Brits and the Americans separated by a common language. Were you involved in that 1984 album Crossfire? Yes.
Tell us a little bit about that. I believe that featured appearances by Dusty Springfield and Booker T. Jones, too. Yeah.
The most exciting thing for me was Booker T. I wasn’t there when Dusty did her vocals, so I never met her. But when Booker T. came in, I just immediately went up to him and said this is not another day at the office for me. It’s just such a pleasure to meet you and an honor to work with you.
I can imagine how thrilled you must have been. He would have been another one of your mentors in your early years. Absolutely.
I was a huge soul music fan. And how did that album turn out? We did a very different version of I’m a Man. It was a fun experience.
Did Spencer Davis go into these albums hoping to have hits from them? And if that was the case, did he show disappointment when he didn’t? I never saw the disappointment like that. I think he was a realist. He was such a legacy name that he could do a tour without a new record.
There were always, I think, three groups of people that would come see Spencer Davis. Some people that would know the name but not have any idea that Steve Winwood was the lead singer. And just, oh, Spencer Davis group, I like that.
Give me some lovin’, so I’m going to go hear that band. Then there were people that would be coming to the show knowing that Steve Winwood wasn’t going to be there and say, I’m curious about what is this going to sound like? And other people that would come going, I just want to hear what they’re doing now. Not expecting anything that it was going to sound like the Winwood years.
No, I’m a love yourself. It grows to be the journey knowing where I’m at. This is the only hope.
Yes, I am and I can’t help but love yourself. Yes, I am and I can’t help but love yourself. It must have been rather difficult for him, I can imagine, no matter what pragmatist he was, to have three massive hits like that and never to be able to replicate that success again in your lifetime.
Yeah, there are so many groups and so many musicians that never have a hit. So he was never reluctant about playing the songs or like wanting to hold back from performing something because that was the Wynwood year, so I’m just going to do the new songs. He was never like that.
And he was also very generous in terms of there would be multiple singers in the band, I think. Almost every group that I played with, there were at least four lead singers. So then he always wanted the four mics across the front to be equal.
He was up front, we were all backing musicians. He wanted band members that were contributing and he wanted the audience to know that was the presentation. He was very generous that way.
I know that he made lots of guest appearances with headliners like The Grateful Dead and Hall and Oates. And then in 93, he formed what he called the Classic Rock All-Stars. And then in 96, he upgraded it to the World Classic Rockers.
That included the late Randy Meisner from the Eagles, Carmine Apice from Vanilla Fudge and former Paul McCartney sideman Denny Lane. A great bunch of musos there. Yeah, excellent.
Well, take it easy, take it easy, don’t let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy. Come on baby, don’t say maybe. So I called up the captain, please bring me my wine.
He said, we haven’t had that spirit here since 1969. And still those voices are calling from far away. Wake you up in the middle of the night just to hear them say, welcome to the Hotel California.
Such a lovely place, such a lovely place, such a lovely place. I like to dream right between the sound machine. On a cloud of sound we drift in the night.
Any place we go is right. This far or twice near, many stars away from here. Well, you don’t know what we can find.
Why don’t you come beneath the blue and run a magic carpet ride. You don’t know what we can see. Why don’t you tell your dreams to me and Fanny, she will set you free.
Since 1997, the world classic rockers have represented a number of the world’s best musicians, playing a range of their chart-topping songs. Their high-energy, fan-friendly performances feature hit after recognisable hit.
This is A Breath of Fresh Air with Sandy Kaye. It’s a beautiful day. In 2001, Spencer Davis began touring with a rebuilt Spencer Davis group.
In 2006, he released the album So Far, on which he looked back on his Welsh roots. This was the first album that he and Ed Tree had written together. He said, you know, let’s write your biography.
It’s an interesting story. Let’s make those into songs. And it was just a wonderful, wonderful project to do.
Spencer could get distracted by a lot of things because he was interested in so much. But when we were writing the songs, it was very, very focused. Two acoustic guitars, two cups of coffee, two notepads.
What do you got? We didn’t let go until we had a completed song. So Far is a title cut and just sort of encapsulates. It’s been a good ride so far, meaning I’m not done yet.
This has been a really interesting life, but there’s more to come. Was he treated like a hometown hero in Swansea? Yeah, people loved him there. Yeah, he was well loved.
They didn’t erect a plaque or a statue or anything to his memory as yet? I don’t think so. They probably should. It may well come.
Were you incredulous about the energy he exerted? It was inspiring. I’m a hiker. I’m in pretty good shape.
But he was really hard to keep up with until later on when he had a couple of surgeries. That slowed him down. Did he keep himself in good shape? I think being active, he did keep himself in pretty good shape.
But if you do that much travelling, I don’t know how many miles he had on United Airlines, but around the world, many times. I think that eventually… You caught up with him? Yeah, I did. I guess you can’t keep running forever, can you? No.
I’ve been hearing the words you say You keep pushing Pushing my love away Something There must be something Got to be something Taking you away Let a good thing slip away A loss is hard on common day I fill my heart, call your name Fidget’s a long school game Late at night if you’re all alone Come to me, I’m ready for love I’ve been hearing the words you say You keep pushing Pushing my love away Something There must be something Got to be something Taking you away Did he ever tell you about his affair with Christine McVeigh? A little bit, just in that, you know, he really liked her. I think she liked him and gave him some credit. I saw a documentary where she mentioned him, that he had turned her on to some music, which he was always turning people on to music.
No other details about it, but he was very fond of her. Yeah, well, I mean, she was very young at the time too. She was studying art and sculpture, I think, at university, wasn’t she? Yeah.
We’re going to have to wait for the book to come out, not just the musical biography. Right. Spencer was in love not only with Christine Perfect, as she was known then, but also with his hometown of Swansea.
Several of the tracks on his biographical album so far relate to his childhood and youth. Mulberry Avenue, which was the street that his mother’s house was on. And I said, why don’t we write a song from the perspective of the street, talking about your mother.
I remember Mary when she was a young girl. I remember when she was growing up. And so it was really tender to see him try to sing that song in the studio for the first time.
He could not get through it. It just choked him up. And he dearly loved his mother.
And I met her quite a number of times. And she was a pretty tough cookie. She’d lived through hard times in the war.
But you could just see that beautiful, close relationship. And she was a kick. He wasn’t that young when he lost her, was he? No, she lived a long time.
I remember Mary The way she used to be Skipping over cobblestones Back in 23 I remember Mary The sweetest smile around The bluest eyes in Swansea town She could always be found Waiting to the neighbours Strolling by the bay Building horse and castle dreams The tide couldn’t wash away No matter what the weather She comes shining through Floating like a feather Down Mulberry Avenue He never considered going back to live again in Swansea? Don’t think so. I think he was always really wanted to be around the centre of where music was happening. I think Swansea would have been a little too remote for him.
And of course, he had a partner and three children and eventually five grandchildren. So I’d imagine he wanted to be close to them too. Oh, absolutely.
When he split up with his wife, all the kids stayed in California. And, you know, I’ve known those kids since they were children and he dearly loved them. They love him.
We lost his daughter Lisa this year to cancer, which was really tragic after losing Spencer just a couple of years ago. Did his marriage split up because of that rock and roll lifestyle? When I first started working with him in 82, she was already gone. So it was it all that predated me.
Talking about that rock and roll lifestyle, it must be really tough on people like you to have lost so many friends along the way. Does that affect you? Sure. Two of my very best friends are gone.
Not only Spencer, but I was in a band called The Bum Steers and my songwriting partner in that group was a guy named Mark Foss and we were best friends for 40 years. And I lost him a few years ago. And the drummer, Billy Block, died a couple of years before Mark did.
You know, just the bass player and I are left from that group. You know, that’s very tough. I don’t look back with regret.
The dream is over. It’s better to forget the time we had and the love we shared. There’s no future in the past that’s buried there.
Now those days are dead and gone and I know I should move on. There’s a little black cloud hanging over me Hanging over the way it used to be There’s a ray of hope I’ll never see With the little black cloud hanging over me You live and learn, you crash and burn Everybody is sure to get their turn Time will heal all the parts they see Me, I’m looking forward to that happy day I have a list of musicians that I’ve worked with and known that have gone on, and I don’t erase anybody from my contact list on my phone. If I’m looking for another phone number and I’ll pass by John Heron, it’s nice to just see John’s name.
John’s gone. It’s a way of just keeping myself reminded of them. John actually is one of the writers of I Ain’t Gonna Go.
He was a keyboard player that played with Spence a little bit. There’s kind of a funny little story that goes with John Heron. Spencer had a gig at the Oklahoma State Fair in Tulsa and we get to the flight and we had a 2 p.m. afternoon show and then like an 8 p.m. show.
So we were going to get into Tulsa just in time to go from the airport straight to the venue and do the first show. The drummer was not on the flight. That meant we were going to have to find a drummer in Tulsa.
Fortunately, the keyboard player was John Heron and John was an Oklahoma boy. He was already in Oklahoma. So Spencer called John and said, you got to find us a drummer.
Have somebody at the dressing room so we can kind of run over the show for 15 minutes and then we’ll go out and do it. So we get there and it’s Jamie Oldacre who was in Clapton’s band for a long time. He was a Tulsa guy.
Fantastic drummer. And David Teagarden, who is Seeger’s drummer, wanted to do it, but Oldacre got there first. So we had these two great drummers that were kind of fighting it out.
Vying for this gig and Jamie did a great job. A drummer eventually showed up after the second show was done. He had some nightmare trying to catch flights to get there.
We were like, oh man, you should have just stayed home. We had a great day with Jamie. Wow, tales of the road.
You could really write a big book, couldn’t you? Well, talking about I Ain’t Gonna Go, Ed Tree, I Am Gonna Go. Spencer Davis also went. He’s sorely missed, but thank goodness his music lives on and the stories of his life are available to all of us through that CD that you were showing me and the stories that you have shared very kindly with our audience.
Thank you so much for your time today. It’s just been great hearing all about your life and your association with the legendary Spencer Davis. What a shame that all these great musicians have to go to a better place.
He was a wonderful guy, very much loved by family and friends and musicians and audiences around the world that never got to meet him. But he left a lot of great music. It was 2017 that the Spencer Davis Group played its very last dates.
Spencer Davis died in Los Angeles in 2020 at the age of 81. The cause of death was listed as pneumonia. Thanks for your company today.
I hope you’ve enjoyed hearing about Spencer Davis’ life. Don’t forget if there’s someone else you’d like to request, please do so through my website, abreathoffreshair.com.au. Meantime, I’ll look forward to being back in your company again same time next week. Bye now.
Because it’s a beautiful day You’ve been listening to Abreath of Fresh Air with Sandy Kay. Beautiful day Oh, baby, any day that you’re gone away It’s a beautiful day