Welcome to a breath of fresh air with Sandy Kaye. 40 years ago, Paul Simon released an album that would change the sound of popular music. It was called Graceland and it arrived at a time when Paul was searching for a new musical direction.
Graceland was also controversial. Paul had recorded in a part idea of South Africa, despite an international cultural boycott. Now acclaimed New York author and music historian, Ashley Kahn, takes us behind the scenes in his new book, Days of Miracle and Wonder, Paul Simon and the Trials and Triumphs of Graceland.
Today we’re going behind one of the most remarkable albums of the last 40 years, how it happened, why it was revolutionary, why it was controversial and why Graceland still matters. Ashley Kahn, welcome to a breath of fresh air. Thank you, Sandy.
You’ve gone to great lengths to document Paul Simon’s comeback because he was on his last legs of his career. Well, that’s one way of putting it. And certainly there were a lot of people who thought that, you know, for sure.
The lack of performance within the commercial world of his album, Hearts and Bones, had kind of said to a lot of people, oh, this is yesterday’s hero. He’s done his best work already and he’s on the downside of the career arc. But that was anything but true.
My hands can’t touch a guitar string, my fingers just burn and ache, my head it deceives with my bodily needs and my body can’t give it a break. My heart can’t stand a disaster, my heart can take a disgrace, but my heart is allergic to the women I love and it’s changing the shape of my face. Allergies, allergies, something living on my skin.
Dr. B, Dr. B, woke me up in three again. He still had amazing work to do, and Graceland was that sort of comeback. But it’s also interesting in that it’s a return to roots for him and that the inspiration he was feeling from this music, from the South African townships, from western Louisiana, the Zydeco music there, East L.A., the Norteño rock and roll of like Los Lobos, had the same visceral charge for him that he had experienced with rock and roll in the 50s at the very first flowering of Elvis Presley and Little Richard and the Everly Brothers, especially the Everly Brothers.
Bebopalula, she’s my baby, bebopalula, I don’t mean baby, bebopalula, she’s my baby, bebopalula, I don’t mean baby, bebopalula, she is my baby doll, my baby doll, my baby doll. She’s a woman in red blue jeans, she’s a woman that’s a queen of the teens, she’s a woman that I know, she’s a woman that loves me so, bebopalula, she’s my baby, bebopalula, I don’t mean baby, bebopalula, she is my baby doll, my baby doll, my baby doll. Harmony, the voices, the doo-wop era.
And so for him, it was a kind of revisitation, only the music was coming from like other pockets of the world. So he was looking for something else at that time? Absolutely. I mean, it was certainly in the air that he was looking beyond the world of what was around in New York at the time.
Not that it was bad. I mean, this is we’re talking about the first flowering of MTV and the coming of digital synthesizers and drum machines and digital technology in the recording studio. And yet he was looking for something else.
He talked about the fringes, looking outside of what was really in the air at the time. And also in the interviews at that moment, he talks about the kind of power that record companies had and record companies were really at the height of their power and how even creatively what was coming out was being controlled to a great degree by the commercial enterprises involved with recordings at the time. And I mean, the big names of that time in the mid 80s were people like Bon Jovi and Beastie Boys, Madonna, Metallica.
And I guess Paul Simon wasn’t relating to any of those. He was. I mean, the thing is that that was the kind of crest where you couldn’t deny that Prince and Madonna that musically were creating some really great stuff.
But there was a whole body of stuff that was on MTV and eating up the radio airwaves, et cetera. That was very samey. It’s not that he didn’t connect with Bon Jovi.
It’s that there were many other groups that had that sort of corporate rock kind of feel. In fact, the term corporate rock comes from this period. A singer in a smokey room, a smell of wine and cheap perfume, for a smile they can share the night.
It goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on. Paul’s looking elsewhere and what he was looking for, a lot of people were looking for, which was, dare I say it, a breath of fresh air, you know, in what was a very kind of sameness, a uniform kind of musical moment. And everybody was listening to everybody.
But at the same time, there was a kind of return to the roots feel that was going on. So all you had to do was go down to the record stores in the mid 80s, like Tower Records here in New York City. And you would see this whole section that was dedicated to the blues or roots music, country and folk and world music.
And so suddenly, all these labels dealing with African music, a lot of them coming from the UK, the huge impact of the indestructible beat of Soweto, all of this is like the preparation, stirring the soup, if you will, for what Graceland will do in 1986, which is unveil this incredible collaborative possibility of the east and the west of Africa and the Western world combining together to create timeless music. The Mississippi Delta was shining like a national guitar. I am following the river down the highway through the cradle of the Civil War.
I’m born a Graceland, Graceland in Memphis, Tennessee, I’m born a Graceland. Poor boys in pilgrims with families, we are going to Graceland. My traveling companion is nine years old, he’s the child of my first marriage.
I’ve risen to believe we both will be received in Graceland. Comes back to tell me she’s gone. As if I didn’t know that, as if I didn’t know my own death.
As if I’d never noticed the way she brushed her hair from her forehead. She said losing love is like a window in your heart. Everybody sees you’re blown apart.
Everybody sees a window. I’m born a Graceland, Memphis, Tennessee, I’m born a Graceland. All of that piqued Paul Simon’s interest.
How did he come to get onto all this South African music? Well, two things. One, he had kind of discovered Lady Smith Black Bombasso on public radio in Los Angeles. But what really inspired him, what really lit the fuse, was being loaned bootleg cassettes.
Apparently bootleg cassettes were killing the music industry. Home taping was the evil thing that all the record companies were fighting. And so he took a home tape of a cassette of Township Jive music from South Africa and was playing it in the car again and again and again, inventing lyrics to it and saying, oh my god, I need to get back in the studio.
And so whatever kind of dispirited feeling he was left with, with the lack of performance by Hearts and Bones, he went back to his record company and he said, listen to this music, listen to these lyrics I’m starting to invent. And he would play the music and then sing it directly into the ear of the record company president, Lenny Warrenker. And he’s like, oh, this is great, Paul.
I’m glad you’re getting back in the studio. I know the session, guys, and let’s get Nile Rodgers to produce it. And Paul looks at him like, what are you talking about? I want to collaborate with the guys who are on this cassette.
And that’s when the whole Graceland, that’s the seed to the whole Graceland project. The story of how we begin to remember This is the powerful pulsing of love in the vein After the dream of falling and calling your name out These are the roots and rhythm of the roots and rhythm of the rain He knew what was going on in South Africa at the time, and he became abundantly aware of the boycott that was in place, too. Over in London, of course, this was stuff that was being dealt with by the music industry and by individuals within the music field there in a very direct way.
The anti-apartheid activities and the creating music like Free Nelson Mandela by the Special AKA. So it was all in play even before Paul went down there. But the thing is that the boycotts that had been set up by the UN, but with the ANC kind of instigating that, ANC being the lead African National Congress, leading anti-apartheid party at that point, all the leaders were in exile.
And almost immediately in 1980, when this boycott goes into effect, it’s being tested. The boycott is very generally and loosely worded. It said no cultural exchange.
Well, what does that mean? So starting from the early 80s, Jalouka, which is a multiracial group coming from South Africa, is performing in Europe. And so is Lady Smith Black Mambazo. There’s all these examples that are kind of testing the metal of the boycott.
Meanwhile, Paul enters the picture and he gets the OK from the musicians in Johannesburg. They let him know, you’ve got to take care of compensation, credit. And he says, I’m going to do it.
He was also aware that Malcolm McLaren from the UK had gone down there. And that beautiful album that Malcolm did called Duck Rock, which unfortunately he did not take care of proper credit or compensation for the Township Jive group that he worked with. They were kind of burned by that experience.
And they let Paul know. And Paul was like, that ain’t going to happen with me. So the credit, he was going to credit them.
He was going to compensate them. Triple American Union scale. And eventually participation so that when he took a Graceland show on the road, there was 24 musicians and most of them were from South Africa.
Who were these guys? Well, you know, what happened was that out of his three week trip in 1985, Paul discovered a kind of rhythm section that he felt very comfortable with. And the three of them sort of became this house rhythm section that he would then work with in South Africa. But also he would bring them up to New York.
And eventually he also worked with Lady Smith Black Mambazo. He brought all these session musicians to the US to record? No, no, no. He only brought the rhythm section.
And eventually Lady Smith Black Mambazo. It all became a sensation even before the album was released. But he recorded the album in South Africa with these musicians? Some of it, about five of the 11 tunes were recorded.
But the basic tracks were all recorded in Joburg. The other tracks were either recorded in New York, Los Angeles and Crowley, Louisiana. Why? You know, why? Because Paul was thinking big.
This is a breath of fresh air with Sandy Kaye. It’s a beautiful day. The thing with Paul and where he was at in his career at that point, Sandy, is that he was not only changing how he was thinking about writing songs, song crafting was, he was starting with the rhythm and then coming up with the words, coming up with the song structure, etc.
In the past, what he had done for the majority of his career was start with words and chords and then develop the song around the rest of the music around that. The problem is all inside your head, she said to me The answer is easy if you take it logically I’d like to help you in your struggle to be free There must be 50 ways to leave your lover She said it’s really not my habit to intrude Furthermore, I hope my meaning won’t be lost or misconstrued But I’ll repeat myself at the risk of being crude There must be 50 ways to leave your lover 50 ways to leave your lover You just slip out the back jack, make a new plan stand You don’t need to be coy, Roy, just get yourself free Hop on the bus, Gus, you don’t need to discuss much Just hop off the key lead and get yourself free Ooh, slip out the back jack, make a new plan stand You don’t need to be coy, Roy, just listen to me Hop on the bus, Gus, you don’t need to discuss much Just hop off the key lead and get yourself free This is a very hip-hop way, in fact, of creating music that you start with the beats and you start with the rhythm, you find a groove and then you write the words to match the sort of cadences and the beats and the offbeats and the accents, you know And that absolutely changed his whole approach to song craft And Grayson was his first attempt to do that And remember, in the past, he had worked outside of the States He famously done Mother and Child Reunion down in Kingston working with reggae, with Toots and the Maytals band But this was the first time he went all in and he said the whole record, the whole album is going to follow this path of working with different artists and collaborating And even when he did a rhythm track, he would sometimes bring in some of the studio cats from New York like an Adrian Ballou or the keyboardist Rob Mounsey who took the guitar riff from You Can Call Me Al and turned it into this amazing horn line that became the defining part of the song A man walks down the street, he says, why am I soft in the middle now? Why am I soft in the middle? The rest of my life is so hard I need a photo opportunity, I want a shot of redemption Don’t want to end up a cart dog in the moonlight Get these mutts away from me, you know I don’t find this stuff I’m using anymore If you be my bodyguard, I can be your law A man walks down the street, he says, why am I short of attention? Got a short little span of attention and all my nights are so long Where’s my wife and family? What if I die here? Who’ll be my role model now that my role model is gone? He ducked back down the alley with some roly-poly little bat-faced girl All along, there were incidents and accidents, there were hints and allegations If you be my bodyguard, I can be your long lost pal I can call you daddy, and daddy, when you call me, you call me out I guess the phrase creative genius is not lost on Paul Simon, is it? That’s absolutely what he is Yeah, well, the thing is that he also had the flexibility to work with different situations in different ways In some cases, he’s out there in the live room of the studio collaborating with the guitar in his hand and coming up with words with the musicians around him In other cases, he’s kind of providing instruction and guidance from the control room and later coming up with the words So he approached each song and each musical situation in a different way and gave himself the flexibility to work with that kind of variety but also freedom He was so confident, he had such strong self-belief Well, certainly to change his musical approach so radically mid-career when, like I said before, many people were ready to write him off and say, oh, your best work is behind you The hidden hero in this whole story is the producer Roy Halle who was able to take Paul’s ideas and work with the technology the recording technology of the day and I talk about this in the book and I go deep into Roy’s own magic and the fact that Roy had been with Paul since his audition days at Columbia Records in 1964 and that Roy really was a genius in how he approached especially the beginnings of digital recording technology and that he found a way Actually, many people were finding a way of getting digital technology and analog technology which was tape and preceded the coming of digital to work together and eventually Grayson is one of those products of that overlapping period when you would find both digital and analog tools in the recording studio and he comes up with the idea to take the warmth of analog tapes and you do all the recording on the tapes but all the editing was done digitally He said, well, I don’t claim to be happy about this, boys And I don’t seem to be happy about that I don’t want no part of this crazy love I don’t want no part of your love I don’t want no part of this crazy love I don’t want no part of your love I don’t want no part of this crazy love I don’t want no part of your love I don’t want no part of this crazy love I don’t want no part of this crazy love Did he have much trouble convincing the record company to back him? That’s a whole other story within a story Paul’s relationship with Warner Brothers I go deep into in the book I’ll leave most of that for the readers to discover on their own Suffice to say that Paul was not someone who was unaware of how to deal with record company relationships Definitely not by the 80s He had had a lot of experience doing it and he was able to keep the best people on his side and they truly believed in him even with Hearts and Bones not selling as well as his previous work The Africans must have been really happy with this I can imagine they would have been a little bit apprehensive in the first place given that he was making all these promises but when they got their recompense, which was much more I’d imagine than what they’d ever been used to being paid they would have been really happy with crossing the boundary and defying the boycotts and bringing their music to the Western world Well, if you think about the four main players who were on the road with him Ray Peery, Joseph Shabalala, the leader of Ladies for the Black Bombasso Hugh Masekela and Miriam Makeba two of the most legendary South African artists who were in exile at the time had not been able to return home because of the anti-apartheid activities that they were involved with All four of them were very public and very, very supportive talking about how they felt that the boycott was hurting the wrong people and that what Paul was doing was very important I was on the corner of Lafayette, state of Louisiana Wondering where the city bar had to go Did a little conversation Drinking a little red wine Catching a little bit of those Cajun girls Dancing beside a cone What’s interesting is there’s a Rolling Stone cover story The writer actually interviewed the head at the United Nations of the guy who was in charge of all the anti-apartheid activity He’s absolutely dismissive of the idea that music can help in any way in the anti-apartheid fight And he goes, you know, that’s naive They’re not the real fighters And I kept thinking to myself reading this like, are you out of your mind? It just went to show that the kind of divisiveness when everybody’s pushing for the same thing it’s not the thing to say Absolutely Ashley, you refer to this album as a classic It intrigues me why you got interested in writing about it in the first place I will tell you this I think that it’s one of those most important and best loved musical recordings of the 1980s It was very important to that time period It both reflected and encouraged this wave of optimism that was in the music world but also outside As the 80s progressed and morphed into the 90s you know, you had this amazing moment of change You know, the Cold War was absolutely over The Berlin Wall fell All of Eastern Europe was suddenly independently controlled The Soviet Union was collapsing And apartheid was dismantled without the bloodletting that everybody was afraid of So that time period was an amazing moment You know, what was the soundtrack to that era? Well, part of it was Graceland with its successful collaboration of East and West of Africa and the Western world in a way that respected the music It was a slow day And the sun was beating on the soldiers by the side of the road There was a bright light A shatter in the shop windows The bomb in the baby carriage was wired to the radio These are the days of miracle and wonder This is the long-distance call The way the camera follows us in slow-mo The way we look to us all The way we look to a distant constellation That’s dying in a corner of the sky These are the days of miracle and wonder And don’t cry, baby, don’t cry, don’t cry There was a dry wind And it swept across the desert And it curled into the circle of doom And the dead sand Falling on the children The mothers and the fathers And the automatic hood One of the most valuable things that I think comes out of the whole Graceland phenomena is that in Paul’s meticulousness in how to approach the proper way of recording with South Africans with a Psydeco group in Louisiana with groups in L.A. credits, compensation, participation It’s a lesson for the future on how to continue to do that and how to meet on that level because Paul was someone who was coming from a very entitled position and so he had the power and he tried to do it and check off the right boxes on that list of what he should do You say that he came into it from an entitled position Of course he had earned that over the years He himself hadn’t started off from an entitled background, had he? So he really knew the other side as well No, he had earned it Yeah, but I mean the thing is you know, entitlement is many things and being of a certain gender and a certain generation and a certain ethnic group without going into all the details of that all I’m saying is that he was aware of his position and he wanted to do it in the right way Whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop She said there’s something about you that really reminds me of money She was the kind of girl that could say things that weren’t that funny I said, what does that mean? I really remind you of money She said, well, who am I to blow against a woman? I know what I know I’ve seen what I have said It’s become an ego There’s a thing that I do in the back of my head I know what I know I’ve seen what I have said It’s become an ego There’s a thing that I do in the back of my head She moved so easily all I could think of was sunlight I said, aren’t you the woman who was recently given a cold right? She said, don’t I know you from the cinematographer’s party? I said, who am I to blow against a woman? My role in this book was to lay out the facts and to allow the reader to make their own judgment. There’s going to be people who still feel it’s appropriation and it’s probably going to reflect who they are and what their background is and what they’ve experienced, etc.
I’m not making anyone right or wrong here and I don’t want to be the final judge on these questions. But I sort of want to put it aside at a certain point and say that you asked about what makes it a classic. Well, it’s certainly transcended its time and its issues and its own creation story in a way that every classic recording does.
This is a breath of fresh air with Sandy Kaye. It’s a beautiful day. You asked why I didn’t.
I mean, you’re aware that I’ve written books on other recordings, such as Kind of Blue by Miles Davis and Love Supreme by John Coltrane. Well, the idea that you can find these stories and deepen the appreciation, not only of just this recording, but of popular music in general, and to see the depth of importance of cultural connection that these achievements in music represent, I think is abundantly important. And I teach about it, I speak about it, and I write about it.
This Graceland project has taken you years to complete, is that right? Fourteen months. The idea for it actually came from the publisher. I tried to do it for the 25th anniversary, so 15 years ago.
And it was to my editor’s credit that Atria Books saw the upcoming 40th anniversary and said, you know what, this incredible piece of music, this incredible recording needs to have its story told. But years ago, 15 years ago, when the album was celebrating its 25th anniversary, I put together a proposal and sent it around. No takers.
It was, you know, the wrong time. Fourteen months of working on this full time, you’ve covered 100 interviews for it? Up to about 100, yeah. I did not interview Paul because, one, I wanted editorial distance because of the controversial aspects, you know, but also because he’s kind of talked out on it.
And there’s still indictments and accusations that kind of are lingering that he has to deal with that are not fun. And so to go down that road, but more importantly, I wanted to get a whole variety of voices in that never would usually be included, including the assistant engineer, including Roy Halley, the primary engineer, getting his voice in there. All the different musicians who would come in and add a certain touch.
And then even Morris Goldberg, who plays the penny whistle break. Baghidi Kumalo, whose whole story is in the book. Albert Mazzucco from Lady Smith Black Mambazo, who gave me the story of how they developed in KwaZulu-Natal, that very specific area of South Africa, why it was very specific, what was specific to the musical traditions in that particular community, and how they eventually crossed paths with Paul.
They were actually touring in Europe before Grayson ever happened. So it’s kind of a virtual roundtable with a focus on what was happening and being said and being thought of in real time. So that Paul’s many, many, many interviews that he gave, much more than any other music project he was ever involved with, the interviews he did in 85, 86, 87, 88 were of primary value, in addition to talking to musicians from today’s perspective.
And finding a space at that roundtable for all these voices was what I challenged myself to do. All the main players are either, well, Hilton Rosenthal, who was the kind of fixer in the South African music scene who helped make the sessions happen and helped educate Paul as to the whole South African tradition. He’s now in Australia.
Albert Muzbuko, one of the only surviving members of the original Ladies with Black Lombazo lineup. Sadly, he passed away about two months ago. I was able to talk to him for about six hours over three interviews.
And Pankiti Kamalo is the only surviving member of that rhythm section, and he’s here in the States. Over the mountain down in the valley Lives a former talk show host Everybody knows his name He said there’s no doubt about it It was a myth of fingerprints I’ve seen them all and man they’re all a scheme When the sun gets weary and the sun goes down He never sees the one or the other And the lights come on in a black head town Somebody cares what’s the best thing to do Well it’s not just me and it’s not just you This is all around the world What was most valuable to me, Sandy, was finding interviews and discussions and, you know, statements made by those artists and Paul himself in real time when Grayson was happening, when the whole phenomenon was taking place. You were around? I was working on the tour.
Oh, just coincidentally. Sandy, in the afterword of the book, I do a reveal. I was the tour manager for Lady Svetlana Mavazo.
But the story, the book, is not about me. It’s about Paul and the album. And so I just, I kind of pull the cover on that at the very end.
Yet you had a front row or maybe backseat view of what was happening at the time. I was one of the witnesses, but I did not want my voice in the book. I understand.
I understand. It’s very important to me how I approach this. Did the idea of writing about it occur to you then and there? I think there’s always been a journalist within me.
And in fact, I started out as a music journalist before I said, this isn’t for me. Because back then it was all about concert reviews, album reviews. And I hated deciding for other people what was good and what was not.
And I kind of pushed that aside and went into the world of music production, concert production, tour management. Well, you’ve had a huge education in all facets of music, haven’t you? And of course now you say you actually teach. Yes, I do.
What’s the course you teach, Ashley? I teach music history and what’s called career building. And it’s part of the Clive Davis Institute at New York University. So would you say, Gracelyn, and I’m just putting it to you, would you say that that album is an example of the fact that music can actually change lives? Yeah, well, I mean, I think you know how I feel about what that Ghanaian UN functionary was saying to Rolling Stone back in 1987.
Music is one of those things that is such a part of our human experience as much as eating, as much as living and procreating and having families and falling in love. You know, all of these human activities that define what it is to be human. Every society, every village, every human collection of humans has music.
And music is one of the ways that we speak from our soul. It’s an emotional language, but it has more meaning to us than we ever realize. And I think that that is the message I’m trying to convey with everything I write and everything that I teach.
And that as a result, it needs the kind of respect and support in the same way that the financial structures of our world get support. You know, it is who we are. And these pinnacles of musical expression, like a Gracelyn, like a Love Supreme by Coltrane, Kind of Blue by Miles Davis, that’s really what it’s about.
I was having this discussion in a taxi heading downtown. Rearranging my position on this friend of mine who had a little bit of a breakdown. I said, yeah, you know, breakdowns, call them breakdowns, go.
So what are you going to do about it? That’s what I had to do. You don’t feel you could love me back the way you could. It was in the early morning hours when I fell up to a phone call.
Believing I had supernatural powers, I slammed into a brick wall. I said, hey, is this my problem? Is this my fault? If that’s the way it’s going to be, I’m going to call the whole thing to a halt. I was walking down the street when I thought I heard this voice say.
It’s one of those albums where the music just, it’s so unique, doesn’t sound like anything else from 1986. And even today, it’s such a successful collaboration that it created its own style. It’s not world music.
It’s not an African album. album, nor is it a typical Paul Simon album. It’s such a departure from the rest of his catalogue up till then.
Graceland for Paul was a return to roots. As weird as that sounds, in the music of South Africa, in the music of Western Louisiana, in the music of East LA and the Norteno rock of Los Lobos, he was hearing the same spirit and kind of visceral charge of the rock and roll of his youth. All of that kind of youthful enthusiasm he was reconnecting with on this album and at the same time finding a totally new way of approaching songwriting.
And you’re just as passionate about writing these books three in as you were when you first set out, yeah? And it’s not gone away yet, so yes, I would say so. Are you still in touch with Paul Simon today? You know, I’m not on his speed dial, but I do know how to reach him and I’m hoping that, I know that he’ll be very happy with his book because it was done in the right way. And it was done with a level of honesty and straightforwardness that I think ends up putting him in the right light for what he did and what he accomplished and what remains with us today.
He hasn’t received his copy just yet? I assume that he has. So you’re waiting for the call? I’m okay with it or without, Sandy. Very happy with the way this book turned out.
So you should be. It really does, as you said, point out how fabulous music is and how integral it is to our daily lives. Graceland is certainly one of those albums that has transcended and still lives and is finding more and more fans today, 40 years after it was first made.
Sandy, thank you for that. I appreciate it. I shall let you go.
You’ve been very generous with your time and I will tell everybody to go out and buy a copy of the book. But just before we do go, is there a favorite song on the album that you personally have? It changes all the time, but you know, why don’t you start with Diamonds on the Soles of Your Shoes? People say she’s crazy, she got diamonds on the soles of her shoes. Well, that’s one way to lose these walking blues, diamonds on the soles of your shoes.
She was physically forgotten, but then she slipped into my pocket with my car keys. She said, you’ve taken it for granted because of the blues, wearing these diamonds. And I can say, ooh, as if everybody knows what I’m talking about.
As if everybody here would know exactly what I was talking about. Talking about diamonds on the soles of her shoes. She makes the sign of a teaspoon, he makes the sign of a wave.
The poor boy changes clothes and he puts all that to shave to compensate for his ordinary shoes. She said, honey, take me dancing, but they ended up sleeping in a doorway. Motherboard diggers and the lights on Oprah Broadway, wearing diamonds on the soles of their shoes.
Thank you so much. I thank you, Ashley. Thanks for the meeting, Ashley.
All the best. All the best to you. Bye.
It’s a beautiful day. You’ve been listening to A Breath of Fresh Air with Sandy Tang. Beautiful day.
Oh, baby, any day that you’re gone away. It’s a beautiful day.