Welcome to a breath of fresh air with Sandy Kaye. Hello, how are you doing today? I’m so glad you’ve decided to join me. Today’s episode is going to be even more of a history lesson than it usually is for those of you who weren’t around in the 60s.
And if you’re actually old enough to remember, I promise it’s going to be quite an interesting walk down memory lane. I first heard the band Sam the Sham and the Pharaohs when I was a small child. Their second biggest hit was played on the radio on constant rotation and was such an earworm that I just couldn’t stop singing it.
Do you know which song I’m talking about? The song Little Red Riding Hood came out in 1966. And although that was one of the hits that defined the band, there was so much more to them. Curious, I went looking for Domingo Samudio, better known by his stage name, Sam the Sham.
I knew he lived somewhere in Texas. And after dialing several of the names listed in the white pages, I finally found the retired rock and roller and caught up with him on the phone. Hello, Sam, how are you? Yes, I’m all right.
I realized this wasn’t going to be an easy conversation, given Sam is now in his 90th year. But you’re feeling well, aren’t you? And still making music. Hey, well, that’s a good start.
Oh, man. Can I take you back just a little bit through history? Yeah. I might fill you in a bit first off.
Domingo Samudio was born in 1937 in Dallas to Spanish speaking parents of Mexican descent. He was one of three children raised by his dad after the untimely passing of his mother. Domingo started singing in the second grade when he was chosen to represent his school in a live radio performance.
And he began playing the guitar several years later. Following graduation, he joined the Navy and lived in Panama for six years. During his deployment, Domingo often acted as the emcee during dances and became a crowd favorite due to his onstage antics.
In 1961, he came back to Texas and enrolled in music history courses. He started playing gigs at night and studied during the day. When you started the group, The Pharaohs, you were inspired, I believe, by the costumes that Yul Brynner wore in that 1956 film The Ten Commandments.
Is that right? Yeah. I hadn’t seen the movie, but I knew that they were pretty regal and it just sounded royal. And you wanted a band to look royal? I don’t know about look royal, but while they’re scratching their heads trying to pronounce it, you could be running.
How did the band come about for you in the first place? Well, I don’t know, our culture, when we lived in the country, I mean, when I was growing up, we didn’t have electricity or we had kerosene and, you know, lamps and we had wood stoves to cook on. Right. I didn’t cook, but my grandmother and my family, my father and my mother, lived across the road from each other in West Dallas at the time that we lived in.
As a matter of fact, oddly enough, The Pharaohs, you know, the history of the two gangsters, the male and the female, lived down the road from us. As a matter of fact, they had a well and my long story short, my uncle had to hook up the mules to drag this, it didn’t even have wheels. It was just kind of like a drag with barrels on it and fill it with water and then pull it back to where we were.
It’s strange that I’m remembering this, I just hadn’t thought of it in a long time. You might have guessed that that infamous couple Domingo is talking about is Bonnie and Clyde. They were two of the most notorious criminals in American history who became legendary during the Great Depression for their crime spree across the central US, which included bank robberies, gas station thefts and multiple murders.
Clyde Barrow was born in Ellis County near Dallas and his family moved to West Dallas in the early 20s. Bonnie Parker moved to West Dallas, which was often called Cement City, at a young age after her father died. While they were known for stealing cars and robbing small stores, the pair frequently returned to Dallas to visit family, often engaging in violent confrontations with local law enforcement.
Bonnie and Clyde were killed in a police ambush in 1934 in Louisiana. Can you tell me just a little bit about how you got the name Sam the Sham? When we started our band, there was the Ten Commandments movie out with all, I mean, all the regal pharaohs and all of that in it. And so we thought that was pretty royal and we would just be the pharaohs.
So it was big man, also from Texas. He was Hispanic and he could play the guitar. He was, I mean, we called a big man because he was real big, fat, you know, overweight.
But he could really play the guitar and dance as well. Very light on his feet. I’ve made the grade cause I’ve been bad in Boston baby, yeah, you know I’m bad as can be, yeah, well I’m weird and bearded baby, wild and cruel, can’t you see, yeah, yeah, I’ve had 20 different landlords and 20 different streets, yeah, I’m proud to say that my best friends are Boston’s biggest streets.
All the girls keep coming around, they hear I’m so far out, yeah, hanging around and whispering, Sammy, what’s this all about? Hang on, let’s back up a little again. Domingo had now dropped out of university and was playing as an organist for a Louisiana-based band called Andy and the Knight Riders. They’d been playing mostly gun and knife clubs, but hit the road in their 1952 Packard Hearse in 1963 to make their way towards Memphis.
Domingo took over the role as lead singer and renamed the group Sam the Sham and the Pharaohs. How come you got the name Sam the Sham? Well, in the military, I had, at school, you know, they couldn’t pronounce Amudio. In the military, any time the platoon leader was calling out roll call, they’d be stuttering because they couldn’t pronounce it.
Finally, one of the officers, I said, man, I’m getting tired of this. You know what? I’m just going to call you Sam. So I said, OK.
He said, so when I holler Sam, you answer. I said, yes, sir. You know, so it stuck.
And when I got out of the service, they were still calling me Sam. And I was my real name is Domingo, D-O-M-I-N-G-O. This is Amudio, which, and they named me that.
I hate whining. When people start whining around me, I just tell them all, hush, man, we were so poor they couldn’t even afford a name for me. So they stole one off the calendar.
Domingo means Sunday in Spanish. How did you get the name Sam the Sham? What about the sham? Yeah, the sham. Back then we called it shamming when you were dancing on stage or cutting up or really getting into it, into the music.
You know, come on, man. The sham, you know, everybody started cutting up, you know. So they called me the sham because I couldn’t play an instrument, but I could sing.
I was the lead singer. And then when the guitar was taking a ride with an interluder playing, I’d be dancing on stage. I couldn’t play, but I was always joking and entertaining and dancing.
And back then they called that shamming. And back then they called it shamming when you were dancing on stage or cutting up or So they called me the sham because I couldn’t play, but I was always joking and entertaining So they called me the sham because I couldn’t play, but I was always joking and entertaining and dancing on stage or cutting up or really getting into it, you know. Watch yourself to the laundromat.
And when you finish doing that, bring in the dog and put out the cat. We came up here from Louisiana. David Martin, now deceased, and I were members of a group.
David and I were roommates. We played in a roadhouse and it was pretty interesting. I’d already been in the military.
I’d gotten out and worked in construction. And then I decided to put a band together and that fell apart. And long story, but my drummer went to work in Louisiana with David Martin and Andy Anderson, but they lost their organ player and I didn’t know how to play the organ.
I just bought one. I was looking at it from a business standpoint. You know, you could find a lot of organ players, but nobody owned their own instrument.
I got the job and I had my own special way of playing it. So the band leader, as a spoof or put down, called me the sham, you know, because people would come and say, man, play some Jimmy McGriff. I said, man, I can’t play that stuff.
But they called me the sham. Life, if they give you lemons, make lemonade. Sam the Sham became widely known for his crazy antics on stage.
The band made their first recordings in Memphis, but their early singles like Haunted House failed to catch on outside of the regional market. I just moved in my new house today. And it changed right now.
I knew I’d moved in a haunted house. And this thing seems something to give me. And one big.
Sam, however, remain undeterred by the limited success of the early singles. He and the pharaohs went into Sam Phillips recording studio in Memphis in the summer of 64, determined to take a stab at yet another hit. That session resulted in an incredibly strange Tex-Mex stomp called Wooly Bully, which would soon join songs like Louie Louie and 96 Tears in the ranks of all time great party tracks.
Sam the Sham instantly went from obscurity to worldwide fame. The thudding beat number with a tongue-twisting chorus and nonsense lyrics became the number 11 hit in Britain, where it remained a best-selling single over 15 weeks. The recording also made the band the top US rock group in Germany.
This is a breath of fresh air with Sandy Kaye. It’s a beautiful day. Sam, you had your first and biggest hit in 1964 with Woolly Bully that ended up selling something like three million copies.
How surprised were you? We weren’t surprised. I mean, I really wasn’t surprised, believe me. I just, see that was, they say that’s arrogant.
You mean you were, no, I mean, we got to recording not to be, you know, failures. We went at it. There’s an old saying, if anybody can talk you out of your dream, you didn’t have one.
In other words, you didn’t have a grip on it. Right. So your dream was to make number one? Not really.
You know, if you’re looking to the horizon, that’s good, but don’t get mesmerized looking at the horizon dreaming to make it and stumble over a bevel and never make it. You know what I’m saying? Stay focused. And Shammy was another name for cutting up, entertaining.
And entertaining it most certainly was. The song became a smash hit and quickly climbed to the number two position on the charts before Billboard named it number one record of the year. It was actually the first song to do so without ever actually reaching number one on a chart.
Wooly Bully was also the first American record to sell a million copies during the British invasion, which was a period when British bands dominated. According to Sam the Sham they kicked the Beatles butt. Wooly Bully.
Wooly Bully. It was an old cover tune from Specialty. First we had Betty and Dupree, an old cover tune from Chuck Willis and we had recorded it, but we didn’t know how to promote or anything.
David Martin and I traveled in a hearse. That was before bands. Wooly Bully was the first American produced record to sell a certified million during the onslaught of the British groups.
It was the first record to bump the British groups. So with Wooly Bully, why do you think that song was so popular then? I guess because everybody else was going British and we didn’t follow the trend. In the original Fayrose in West Dallas, which had a historic place.
That’s where Bonnie and Clyde Barrow lived further on down the road when I was a kid. We had the hall water wells and go fishing close by and had coal oil lamps. So you did with what you had and people sang.
We did have a radio. My brother put together a crystal radio when he was in high school and that’s how we listened to it. To me that was fascinating.
I wasn’t even six years old, but I remember those things. My mother passed away when I was three and a half years old and people have asked me, how can you remember those things that your mother did? When something that traumatic happens, yes, for emotional survival, you always replay the pleasant moments that you had. Of course.
What was the song about? It was just, I don’t know, they call me the sham because sometimes I just make up tunes to break up the monotony. When we were working in nightclubs, I mean, we played six hours and sometimes I’d just tell the band, kick it off, and I’d make verses as I went along. And was that one of these? Yeah.
I mean, we were singing songs, we were singing other things, but when we went to a studio, finally they were tossing stuff at us that was British by that time. And how about doing this? We didn’t follow the trend. Our motto was don’t follow the trend, set it.
You know, everybody was going British, I said nah. So Wooly Bully was just something you made up as you were dancing on stage? I made the words up as it went. And mariachi songs, being from Texas and being Hispanic, or Texican as they say, when we had a band, the first band, it would be real monotonous.
The Pharoahs followed up Wooly Bully with a few minor hits like Juju Hand and Ring Dang Doo, and toured the world, opening for acts like the Beach Boys, James Brown, and Sonny and Cher. I got an alligator claw and some blue feathers, oh you better do what you know you must. I got a lock of your hair and a bullfrog’s eye, and if you break my heart you better say goodbye.
I got a Yokomata, Uvamaka, Juju Hand. The Yokomata, Uvamaka, sure is grand. Makes your eyes look red and your tongue turn green.
The strongest mess that you’ve ever seen. The more your head used to be real strong, it kept you straight when you did me wrong. As time went by you just got so mean.
But the Yokomata, Uvamaka is the plan. I got a Yokomata, Uvamaka, Juju Hand. The Yokomata, Uvamaka, sure is grand.
Makes your eyes look red and your tongue turn green. The Yokomata, Uvamaka makes you scream. In late 65, only months after the release of Wooly Bully, the Pharaohs disbanded after disagreements regarding finances and creative direction.
Sam headed to New York and the following year with a new line-up of the Pharaohs, he and the band released the novelty tune, Little Red Riding Hood, which became the group’s second huge hit. Like Wooly Bully, that record reached number two on the charts and was certified gold in 1966. Who’s that I see walking in his woods? Why it’s Little Red Riding Hood.
Hey there Little Red Riding Hood. You sure are looking good. You’re everything a big bad wolf could want.
Listen to me. Little Red Riding Hood. I don’t think little big girls should go walking in these spooky old woods alone.
Howl! What big eyes you have. The kind of eyes that drive wolves mad. So just to see that you don’t get chased.
I think I ought to walk with you for a ways. What full lips you have. They’re sure to lure someone bad.
So until you get to grandma’s place I think you ought to walk with me and be safe. I’m gonna keep my sheep suit on till I’m sure that you’ve been shown that I can be trusted walking with you alone. Little Red Riding Hood.
I’d like to hold you if I could but you might think I’m a big bad wolf so I won’t. Howl! Sam, what about Little Red Riding Hood? I remember that as being my very first song ever that I fell in love with. Tell me a little bit about how that song came about.
Little Red Riding Hood. I’m trying to remember who put that together. Yeah, I can’t remember the author saying he was pretty, he was a songwriter and he was pretty shall I say, he was well known but he recorded it and he got killed in an accident or something right before the song came out and so we picked that up and away we went.
It seemed like you had such a great time with it. Well, another reason they call me the sham is because when the band got bored sometimes, we weren’t the kind of band that stood up there trying to look cool. We’d be dancing cutting up and laughing and if you don’t enjoy what you’re doing, you need to go get a brain surgeon job or get some brain surgery.
Some people try to look so cool they were just boring and the guitar player Omar Lopez weighed close to 300 pounds I believe. I mean he was really heavy and he had a past while he’d already been in the military, came back to West Dallas and some idiot was drunk while they were down at the river drinking one night and pulled the trigger on a poor tan and blew part of his belly away. He survived but he was real light on his feet and he could really play the guitar and when I got out of the service, he had already been, when I got out we started singing again and when we worked six hours a night in one club and a lot of times everybody was going to be able to play and cover songs to break up the monotony.
We’d just kick off a rhythm and a tune and I’d make songs as I went along it didn’t matter if they were wrong, just keep the band going strong see that kind of attitude. You hid your heart in a house of bricks And locked all the doors and windows I’ve already used a whole bag of tricks I can’t find a way to get in though You don’t want to let a new love start So you put a brick house around your heart But I’m gonna keep hanging around Till I huff and puff and blow your little house down Let me back up and get me a good brand new I swear by the hair on my chinny chin chin I’m gonna find a way to get in I’m gonna keep hanging around Till I huff and puff and blow your little house down Now come on Red, I know you’re in there Now tell them little pigs to open up the door Your heart was broken once before But another love just scares you You don’t want to let a new love start So you put a brick house around your heart But I’m gonna keep hanging around My chinny chin chin followed Little Red Riding Hood and came as a result of the pressure that MGM placed on the group to find a follow-up hit. This was the record company where Roy Orbison, The Animals and Herman’s Hermits had all produced their hit songs.
But baby, baby, remember It’s my life and I do what I want It’s my mind and I think what I want Show me I’m wrong, hurt me sometimes But someday I’ll treat you real fine You can’t get fortunes You just walk to another office Are you gonna cry when I’m squeezing you dry Taking all I can get, no regrets When I open my eyes And live on that money Believe me honey, that money Can you believe I ain’t no saint who complains So girl, can you die And baby, baby, remember Those songs were so big. How do you feel about the fact that you were just known everywhere in the world for Woolly Bully but then for Little Red Riding Hood as well? How did that make you feel? I don’t know. I mean, we just smiled and looked at each other because that’s what we set out to do.
I mean some people say, well why are you doing this? I mean I’m enjoying myself. I hate to see a band that is so cool they look dead. It’s like running a jackhammer or nailing a wall or ironing clothes.
If you don’t like your job, quit it. Get out of it. And if you can’t, that means that the only thing holding you back is fear.
So you just endure. Man, if you don’t like your job, go ahead or if you look so sad, go ahead and die. You’re sucking up good air.
Do you miss those days? Do I miss that? No, I don’t miss them because there’s a saying too. When we play, let’s play like there’s no tomorrow. Oh, that’s bad.
No, that’s good. Not long ago, I was walking down the street when a woman in a car knocked me off my feet. Oh, that’s bad.
No, that’s good. My insurance paid me a lot of dough. More money than I’d seen in a year’s payroll.
Oh, that’s bad. No, that’s good. No, that’s bad.
On Dr. Phil, just where’d my money went? And all I had left was a very bad nymph. Oh, that’s bad. No, that’s good.
Because the way I walked got me a role as the marshal’s partner on a TV show. Pretty young actresses started hanging around and every night we’d do the town. Oh, that’s good.
No, that’s bad. I ended up back in the hospital bed because my heart fell on my bad neck. Oh, that’s bad.
No, that’s good. It was just when I was feeling my worst I fell in love with a beautiful nurse. Oh, that’s good.
No, that’s bad. Because I found out she was the doctor’s wife. Don’t try to look cool and enjoy yourself.
If you don’t like your job, quit it.
This is a breath of fresh air with Sandy Kaye. It’s a beautiful day. As the late 60s rolled around, despite releasing a few more minor hits, Sam the Shaman of Pharaohs lost relevance, as rock and roll began tackling issues like Vietnam and civil rights.
The rooms were so much colder then. My father was a soldier then. And times were very hard when I was young.
When I was young. I smoked my first cigarette at ten. And for girls, I had a bad yin.
And I had quite a ball when I was young. When I was young, it was more important. Pain, more pain, fun, a laugh, a much louder shout.
When I was young. When I was young. I met my first love at thirteen.
She was brown and I was pretty green. And I learned quite a lot when I was young. When I was young.
It was more important. Pain, more pain, fun, a laugh, a much louder shout. When I was young.
When I was young. My faith was so much stronger then. I believed in fellow men.
And I was so much older then. When I was young. Are you still singing with the band today? No, I’m just relaxing, smiling.
And after Woolly Bully, he’s a very famous producer. When we came looking for time, we couldn’t afford it. We’d just go to a studio and ask somebody, could you front us some time? And when we get a hit, you can, for a percentage, get it.
And everybody would say, man, nah, you’d never go anywhere with that. And even when we cut Woolly Bully, somebody took it to a producer. He said, that’s the worst piece of mess that I ever heard.
But he didn’t use the word mess. And the person that had fronted us the money was about as crazy as we were. And he was in the liquor business and he says, maybe it is, but I’m going to make you eat those words.
And it reminded me of something that a man from Louisiana by the name of Fate told me. He says, go after it, Sam. When they run you out of town, don’t be grumpy and all that.
Just square your shoulders, put a smile on your face while they’re ushering you out of town. And a smile, a high step, make it look like a parade. Make it look like you’re leading it.
Great. Well, they didn’t have to run you out of town, did they? Because they were eating their words. Woolly Bully was a huge success, as was Little Red Riding Hood.
And I guess, Sam, when you look back on your life today, you’re pretty happy with the way it all turned out. Yeah, yeah. You’re bound to catch a rat, take a tiny, shiny hook to bait.
And you’re bound to catch a fish if you’re calm enough to wait. But how do you catch a girl? Tell me. How do you catch a girl? You know, I don’t care.
A man by the name, again, Fate, he had survived World War II, a concentration camp and everything before we came up to Memphis. He was a dear friend, and I went to him and I said, Fate, I know you’ve been through a lot. I’m fixing to make a run at it.
And I says, with all you’ve lived through, can you give me some words of wisdom? And he called me Junior, and he said, Junior, he says, when you do something, give it all you got. If you don’t like it, quit. And if they run you out of town, he says, just square your shoulders, put a smile on your face, and start high-stepping.
Make it look like a parade and act like leading it. Sam did continue to lead the parade. In 1970, Domingo Samudio undertook a solo career and was awarded a Grammy in 1971 for Best Album, Liner Notes to his record Sam Harden Heavy.
Oh, baby, what can I do? I’m walking on a circus, so in love with you. Oh, you’ve got me loving you so. I can’t do my homework, therefore I said I can’t do my homework.
Oh, mama, nothing’s too bad. I’m walking on a circus, I can’t lose my mind. Oh, you’ve got me loving you so.
I can’t do my homework, therefore I said I can’t do my homework. It’s a touch of your hand or a kiss from your lips. Everything you do is simple.
Makes no difference, baby, what you do. Everybody knows I’m in love with you. Hey, mama, you’ve got me so blind.
I’m walking on a circus, I’ve got to lose my mind. Oh, you’ve got me loving you so. I can’t do my homework, therefore I said I can’t do my homework.
That was the only album I did for Atlantic, and it was the Liner Notes. When it comes to writing, better pick your corner, because I’m coming. I was fortunate that night, and they call it a cult album because it just had an initial release, and a lot of people know about it, but, you know, people that really seek out that information.
Dwayne Allman is on some of the cuts. At that time, Eric Clapton, Derek and the Nominos were next door in the other studio cutting Layla, and Dwayne came over and did some stuff with a John Lee Hooker number going upstairs. I’m going upstairs I’m going upstairs The Memphis Horns were there, the Dixie Flyers, all those guys, and to me it really was Memphis because I was a little nuts back then.
Domingo also wrote two Spanish language songs for the 1982 film The Border. He later expanded his repertoire to include gospel and country. Wooly Bully also became part of the soundtrack of Night in the City in 1992.
In 94, a number of artists recorded Turban Renewal, a tribute to Sam the Sham and the Pharaohs. You can grab your gold and your diamonds too All I want is a ring or two Well, I’ve been walking this little old world Looking for a ring or two I thought I met her with a thousand girls Looking for a ring or two I got a mojo head and a little girl too But I ain’t never had a ring like you Sam went back to Memphis and turned his attention to religious and charitable duties. He started teaching Bible classes in prison and worked as an interpreter for health care ministries which sent doctors to impoverished communities in South America.
He did continue to record and release music, however, including Won’t Be Long in 1995 and the song Rambler in 2001. Orale! Yeah! Lleguen las bules, bules! Orale! Orale! No te aguites! Les platicaré Una chica gorda Que está muy curiosa Y todos me gritan Orale! Orale! Orale! Orale! Orale! Orale! Orale! Que pueda quedarse nueve Para si un tamaño Y el cabello The huge hit Wully Bully by Sam the Sham and the Pharaohs was inducted into the Grammy Hall of Fame in 2009. Additionally, Wully Bully has been recognised in other halls of fame.
It was selected by the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as one of the 500 songs that shaped rock and roll. And Sam the Sham himself was inducted into the Memphis Music Hall of Fame in 2016. You still call yourself Sam, don’t you? You don’t refer to yourself as the Moody-O anymore, you’re still Sam the Sham, aren’t you? Well, I make sure that I don’t turn the first time somebody calls my name.
Thank you. Thank you so much. I want to make sure I don’t turn it the wrong time and somebody out of my path is trying to catch me.
Thank you so much for chatting with us today. We’re just so excited to have made contact and to hear that you’re in such good shape and doing so well. We thank you for the music and wish you lots of great health to come and plenty more good times, Sam.
Sam, thanks a million for chatting. Yeah. Before you go, before you go, those big things that look like rabbits that y’all think kangaroos, I just wanted to tell you in Texas, we got jackrabbits that big.
Is that right? Oh, no, I’m just bragging on Texas. Thanks for your time today, Sam. I’m really grateful.
Okay. God bless you. You too.
All the best. Bye. He sure is a character, isn’t he? Sam the Sham is going to be 90 on February the 28th, 2027.
He and his wife have a daughter and he also has two sons and two grandchildren from his previous marriage. Happily retired, but still a motivational speaker and poet, Sam famously maintains a philosophy that there’s plenty of life beyond rock and roll. You’ve been listening to A Breath of Fresh Air with Sandy Kaye.